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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by Nofangfan on November 18, 2005
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Hi Matt
Thanks for responding to my posting for help with a terciopelo "overpopulation" problem. You are absolutely right when you say this snake is most adaptable. Many times this adaptability has been sited in the news down here as a problem growing worse. This snake is now being seen in population areas not seen before. Who knows? As the human population increases it necessarily means more interaction with sanke population. Also as communication becomes more robust there is also more attention drawn to snake encounters.
Really, I dont care much for snakes but that doesnt mean I go out of my way to kill them either. Most snakes seem prety harmless. Ive never killed one and have had many opportunities. Since Ive been down here I hear alot of terciopelo stories. The Costa Ricans routinely kill them on site. Ive seen a dead snake that was as big around as my calf and about six feet long. That makes you wonder how it would be to get hit by something that stong.
I have no idea what a matahuey is. Let me know.
Nuclear engineers are always welcome.
Thanks again,
Gringo Bob
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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by jungle on November 19, 2005
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Fer-de-lance is just another common name. Use it. Jeff Corwin did. Just like cottonmouth and water moccasin. Fer-de-lance also sounds cool while Terciopelo sounds like an Italian soccer player.
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Woops.
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by MattHarris on November 19, 2005
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ok. You'll hear "matabuey"- pronounced (mata-BOY)..its the COsta Rican name for the bushmaster snake. They typically get bigger than the terciopelo, but are much rarer, mostly due to their shy secretive habits and that they are typically only found in primary rainforest--not as adaptable as the terciopelo.
Their name, does however, translates to 'bull killer', due to the capacity of their bites to produce a good dose of venom. I've never heard any authentic records of them doing so, but, you probably know that terciopelo have also been known to kill horses with a well placed bite.
Although, tests indicate bushmaster venom is has a low toxicity in rats, it has a quite different effect on people. It could be, due to the fact that like some venoms tailored to be more toxic to lizards and birds, that the venom is designed to work slower in rats such that the rats don't break down in the snakes stomach, faster they they can be digested. Bushmasters live in cool, paca or armadillo burrows, and thus don't spend time out basking.
Keep an eye out for snakes and DON'T walk in barefeet-especially at night. I tell people to always have a flashlight and watch where you are stepping.
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For Jungle....on common names.
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by MattHarris on November 19, 2005
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..yeah, Fer-de-lance is fine to use IF you are in Martinique, but it is worthwhile to be more specific and its not a matter of whether it "Sounds cool" or not...Personally, I like the sound of terciopelo better myself. Since Bob is in Costa Rica, AND Costa Ricans outside of herpetologists don't call them "fer-de-lance", they are going to give you as many puzzled looks as there are snakes if you call them that. Their name for that snake IS 'Terciopelo'(velvet skin), hence that is what they should be called. If you are talking about the common lancehead, and say "terciopelo" most people know you're talking about Panama, Costa Rica or southern Central America, If you say "Barba Amarilla" they would likely think you're referring to a snake from Guatemala, Belize, etc....It's analogous to calling an Urutu, an "Urutu" and not a "Fer-de-lance".
Dean Ripa once commented to me that if you really want to get nitpicky and make the argument for which names REALLY hold water, in the way the Linnaen system of naming goes, ORIGINAL NAMES coined by the indigenous peoples Should take precedent over the Linnaean system. Most of the South American Indians had more colorful and descriptive names than anything biologists can come up with today.
...an example, the Tiger Rat snake(Spilotes)...The Guayami(or may have been Talamanca) Indians, had an actual name for that snake that translates in English to "Oriole" snake -- referring to its coloration. There is nothing 'rat snake' about those snakes and the Tiger part was coined by the pet trade....so Alejandro Solorzano refers to them as "Oriole" Snakes in his "Snakes of Costa Rica"(2004) book---an EXCELLENT book, I might add.
Just some stuff to ponder on common names.
MCH
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RE: For Jungle....on common names.
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by CAISSACA on November 20, 2005
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From what I have heard, the name "fer-de-lance" is not used in Martinique either - the local Bothrops lanceolatus is simply called the "serpent". The term "fer-de-lance" was coined by French naturalists, but has never been widely used in the Antilles or C/S America.
Terciopelo seems to have become the specific term of choice for the C. American lancehead... but at the end of the day, if one wants to be specific, there is always the very good solution "Bothrops asper" ;-)
Cheers,
Wolfgang
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RE: For Jungle....on common names.
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by Cro on November 20, 2005
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Bob: The one thing that no one seems to have mentioned yet, is that you need to have a response/ evacuation plan in place, in case someone is bitten by a terciopelo, or other venomous snake.
You need to know the nearest hospital facility that stocks the proper Anti Venin, and hopefully have a way to contact the hospital to let them know your are coming so they might prepare for the treatment, and you might want to find out the names and contact information of the most qualified snake bite doctors in that part of the world. You also might want to be familiar with the latest first aid measures that can be used on the way to treatment. You might want to print out treatment protacol sheets for the bite of this snake to have on hand for the doctors.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by FUTURE_HIT on November 28, 2005
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Just where would you find knee high snake boots?
Most of the name brands i've run across average from 15 to 18 inches, just under the calf area or mid calf.
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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by Cro on November 28, 2005
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Bob: Unless you are 7 feet tall, 18 inch snake boots should stop just below your knee. If they were much taller, you would not be able to bend your knee and walk.
If you want protection higher than that, I would suggest some of the Snake Proof Kevlar Lined Pants or Snake Chapps. They can be found in outdoor equipment supply companys, like Dunns, Cabellas, Sportsmans Guide, etc.
Hope this helps. JohnZ
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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by Heatseeker on November 30, 2005
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Hi all!!
I found this thread extremely interesting. The "terciopelo" is one of my favourite snakes, it's fascinating.
What decided me to put my point across is not the snake, though. It's just that I found it soooo funny (with all the respect) when Jungle said Terciopelo sound like an italian soccer (football for us in europe) player. Man, that's sharp!.
Terciopelo is spanish for "velvet". Kinda weird the snake has this name. Depending on whether it would be pronounced by a spaniard or a Costa Rican the pronunciation would be:
- Ter ("e" like in "echo")- thee (like in "thin")- o (short "o" like in "organ")-pe (again "e" like "echo"- lo (again short "o"). That'd be the spanish way. It just differs in the latin american form in the "C" that is pronounced like an loud "S".
On the other hand, "Matabuey" (or Ox Killer) is pronounced like " Ma-ta- boo- e (short again like "echo")- ee".
Hope no one is offended by the corrections. I just wanted to give a hand with it!. I had to be corrected a lot of times to learn my english, you know?.
Best regards and thanks for the chance to learn from you!
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RE: Controlling an overpopulation of fer-de-lance
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by Scott7590 on December 11, 2005
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This is a bit off topic, but it's something that has interested me for a long time:
I know the mongoose was introduced in Trinidad in the early 1900s to control the fer-de-lance, but I've never read anything regarding how effective it was/is. I know the mongoose has done a real job on the birds on the island, and I know it's a great "ratter." But the mongoose is diurnal and the rat is nocturnal, so apparently the two seldom meet (hence the mongooses' destruction of bird nests and fledglings}. I also know the fer-de-lance is nocturnal, so that would suggest that encounters between the two are not too common.
But my main question has to do with the mongooses' ability to kill the fer-de-lance. The mongoose is famous for killing cobras, which rear up and strike downward. The mongoose does not avoid the bite, but meets it. The fer-de-lance does not rear up, but strikes forward, and it's much faster than a cobra. The mongoose is also quicker than a fer-de-lance. However, if the mongoose was/is programmed to meet rather than avoid bites, if it tried to "meet" the bite of a fer-de-lance, wouldn't it get a face full of fangs for its trouble?
I would be very interested to know if anyone has any information on this subject.
Now, Gringo Bob, please understand that I am just kidding when I say this: You and others may be trying to control the "over-population" of the fer-de-lance, but the fer-de-lance is also trying to control the population of YOU! Based on the increase in the fer-de-lance population, it looks like the fer-de-lance is winning!
I have read that peccaries are major predators of the fer-de-lance, and just about everything else that moves, so that may explain the inverse correlation in their populations.
I don't think you're going to control your fer-de-lance population by keeping your property free of things that attract snakes unless all your neighbors do the same. I have a friend who went snake hunting in Iquitos, Peru, some years ago. He found that you don't catch snakes in the jungle. You catch them around human habitations where there is a lot of garbage that attracts rodents. The same is reportedly true in Thailand. If you want a big retic, you need to look around houses in garbage-strewn slums of Bangkok rather than the jungle. It's not very "romantic," but if you want to find snakes, you go where the snakes are.
Regards.
Scott
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