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Echis carinatus
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by Snake18 on December 8, 2005
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Hy guys,
I might just be getting a baby Echis carinatus befor I`ll get my puff adder and I might get it pretty soon. It`s about 30cm long and looks realy healthy, I`ve seened it. Could you please give me some tips on caring for it ? All the basics: best substrate, temperature, himidity, handeling etc.
Anticipated thanks,
Best regards, Alex S.
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Rabies on December 8, 2005
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Best guy to ask is Al aka Phobos. He's an Echis "freak"LOL has quite a few speciemens.
John
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Phobos on December 8, 2005
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Hi Alex:
I'm currently write a formal "captive care" paper for this site on Echis but I'll give you the basics.
Take care of yourself first! Know what species you have, for sure. The dealers most of the time have no idea. The Anivenom's available are region specific and may not be cross reactive.
I find Sawscales to be very shy in nature and need to have lots of cover in their enclosure for them to thrive. This sound strange because they are ready and able to defend themselves. They have a very long strike so don't think your at a safe distance just because they are small. They will also get right in your face and take the offensive when really mad.
I use lots flat rocks placed on the "Desert Blend" commercial substrate which is crushed Walnut shells. Make lots of tight fitting crevases for the snakes to hide under, although it will not be uncommon to see them basking from time to time. I put all of these rocks on the hotter side of the cage and put some silk plants that they can climb into (yes, they love trees) to hide or to cool off a bit.
I keep one side of the cage about 30-32C and the other side closer to 20-25 C. I offer them water by spraying them once a week, suprisingly they do spend quite a time drinking when I do. I never leave a water bowl in the enclosure. I give them at least 12-14 hour photo period with full UV spectrum.
Some species will take F/T mice and others will only take live ones. They seem to have to bite something before they will consider eating it. Lots of my other snakes will just come up to F/T and start to eat, these guys have to nail it and come back later.
The only good thing about feeding live mice is it reminds you how lethal they are when a perfectly healthy mouse is dead within second of the strike. Again they are shy snakes and can easily be put off by uncooperative prey or an aggressive keeper. Only my E. sochureki will eat F/T but after alot of work. Now it's like feeding the Dolphins at Sea World, they will rise up vertically to grab a F/T off the forceps. This is a bit scary because they are 140 gm snakes about 0.6M in length with the most human toxic venom.
Babies start off very well with Crickets and is very cool to watch them chase them down and gobble them up. When they are a few months old or of sufficient size they are easy to switch to pinkies.
I think this should be a good start for you Alex. Let me know if I can help when you get them.
Cheers!
Al
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Frawgg on December 8, 2005
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Hey Al, have you used Sani-Chips as a substrate media? Have you read my post under "Caging Questions"? If you haven't checked out Sani-Chips, this product is certainly worth investigating. You can do a web based search for any dealers in your area. Bird breeders like to use it also to line the bottom of their bird cages. Pretty cool product for fossorial & semi-fossorial species. Sani-Chips are not as coarse as crushed walnut and are "kinder & gentler". An Aspidelaps breeder friend of mine in Florida suggested this product to me & I have been most pleased with his suggestion.
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Snake18 on December 9, 2005
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Thanks for the info Al, I`m no expert in the Echis genus and even if I saw the snake that I might be getting, I couldn`t tell what species it is. The guys who have it also have a Dendroaspis viridis which they labeled as Dendroapsis angusticeps and wouln`t listen to me when I told them it was viridis. So I wouln`t be surprised if the Echis they have is not carinatus. I will send you some pics of the snake when/if I get it.
Thanks again for the info, realy apreciate it.
Take care...
Alex S.
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Snake18 on December 9, 2005
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Oh...in case of a bite I wouldn`t have to worry about what antivenom to get cause there isn`t any exotic antivenom in Romania. That`s why I alsways take great care when handeling highly toxic exotic species. I know use my tongs on my 60cm WDB. Mainly because it doesn`t want to sit on the hook.
Cheers
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Hotherps on December 10, 2005
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I might get back later with some info on our methods for keeping Echis.
I personally have worked with them for over 12 years (6 or 7 Sp.). We normally
have a few hundred in the collection at any one time.
The one thing I will say for now is that your 30cm specimen is NOT a baby! Rather that is a good sized adult.
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Snake18 on December 10, 2005
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Hi Paul,
Any extra info on keeping Echis is always welcomed. Even if I don`t get this snake now, I`ll more than likely get one very soon.
Well...the guys that have his particular snake, also have a large sized adult(60-70cm long) so...compared to that one, this small specimen looks like a baby.
Cheers,
Alex S.
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by LarryDFishel on December 11, 2005
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Hotherps,
Might you be mixing up your units? My echis was about 16-18cm at birth, and is now probably 40cm at 2 years of age. Its parents must have been 60cm or more...
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RE: Echis carinatus
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by Phobos on December 14, 2005
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Hi:
Just found this partial citation which is disturbing but not surprising. I'm trying to track the whole thing down. Note to self: Don't get tagged by these bad boys!
Al
In a case of envenoming by a Tunisian snake of the Echis pyramidum complex, a total dose of over 300 ml of three different antivenoms (one monospecific and two polyspecific) with activity against Echis species failed to neutralise the toxins present in the circulating venom in the patient (Figure 3), demonstrating the lack of specificity of these antivenoms against this particular venom
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