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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by SimplySnakes on March 27, 2006
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I have some news as a update, George Van Horn has two male eastern X canebrake crosses at his Reptile World Serpentarium in St. Cloud. I just saw these on saturday (3/25). His also came from the Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia SC. These are gorgeous snakes. I did take a photo and have it being put on disk soon. I will have to ask for help in putting it up here for you all to see. George told me that Riverbanks is breeding them regularly.
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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by earthguy on March 27, 2006
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Alright gentlemen,
Forgive my skepticism, but what I am understanding from you flies in the face of the biology that I know. I am definitely not saying that you're wrong, I just want to understand. I saw the snake (beautiful snake), so I can see how it looks like a hybrid between the two species. But is it really? As my major professor often says, we have a tendancy too often to see whats behind the eyes rather than what's in front of them. I asked earlier if anyone has done a DNA analysis of these populations, and nobody answered me. Have they? Basic biology says that when two species evolve (diverge) they do so with a reason. specialization occurs that physically (or behaviorally) separates the species, thus reducing niche competition and causing speciation. I am not as up to snuff on Crotalid evolution as I am the Agkistrodon complex, but it would be my guess that the adamanteus is basal? What then caused the speciation of horridus? They are definitely (as far as I know) different species, so why would they begin randomly mating again 2 million years (a very rough estimate based on when copperheads and cottonmouths diverged) after they diverged. Am I missing something? Please help me, because my curiosity is about to KILL me.
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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by CrotalYES on March 27, 2006
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Check out Manny Rubio's book: Rattlesnake: Portrait of a Predator. It discusses many Crotalus crosses, and many are naturally occuring. Hybrid snakes are in fact extremely common in the pet trade. Ever heard of a jungle corn? Its a Elaphe guttataXLampropeltis getula.
What is really scary is that hybrid rattlers and many colubrids can themselves breed and produce VIABLE offspring. You could have a 50/50 eastern/western diamondback bred to a canebrake or even a diamondbrake (as I like to call them).
Sometimes the confines of captivity make this a likely occurence. Sometimes breeders use tricks such as actually taping over the correct females vent so the aroused male eventually copulates with a female of the wrong species.
I don't know how he did it, but Mardi S. had some killer Cottonheads...or is that coppermouths.
Matt K.
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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by earthguy on March 28, 2006
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Whew, I feel better. I now have a reasonable explanation. That's one of the reasons I love this site - everyone knows a little something and a few know a great deal. Together that's a pretty dangerous combination. Where have you guys seen them here in the wilderness of SC?
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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by SimplySnakes on March 29, 2006
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As far as I know, the area of SC seems to be between Jasper and Beaufort counties. One found on Old Charleston Road and the other near Beaufort. I have traced the origin of the snakes that were presented to members of the Gainesville Herp Society. According to Bill Cope, he kept a hybrid for five years. Skip Ferguson kept about three and the snakes were produced by caging a eastern and a canebrake together in the same cage. No gimmics or foolery on the snakes part, just enclosed together. This resulted in the female snake producing offspring with characteristics of both animals. Dick Bartlett also is said to have kept one. This is from two wild collected snakes. A natural breeding that could have occured in the wild the same way. I have a call in to Scott at the Riverbanks Zoo, but have not heard back from him yet.
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RE: Eastern diamondbacks
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by pygmybait on March 29, 2006
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http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9514
http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9511
http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9503
http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9504
http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9507
http://bodvarphoto.com/gallery/snakes/IMG_9509
This is a male EDB X Canebrake that belongs to a friend of mine, Skip Fergusun. He's about 5 years old and is one of the "showstoppers" that I use for my educational programs with local EMS students. This guy is as nice as he could be. He never rattles or coils up in a defensive posture and has never acted in an aggressive manner. Photos by Lisa Bodvar
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