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Thank you to BWSmith
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by SwampY on July 16, 2006
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BW posted a pic of his cottons eating chicken gizzards, so I just hadda try it. So far they haven't touched them, but on a whim I put a plate of them in the copper cage. They loved them, within a couple of minutes they were stuffed.
My mouse bill just went down a bit.
Thanks Brian!
Now, if I can just get the diamondbacks to eating loaf bread I'll be set!
Chad Minter
http://www.envenomated.com
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by Rob_Carmichael on July 16, 2006
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I would just caution against too much chicken by-products in their diet. Snakes are whole animal feeders and you can't beat a whole animal prey like a mouse or rat so just use this as an occasional supplemental food source. I'm sure some folks have kept them long term on an "animal part" grocery store bought diet, however, I think that in the long run, snakes should get whole animal prey. Plus, you will find that your cottonmouth's feces will be extra ripe on a poultry diet (and their "stuff" smells pretty awful on just the whole animal diet).
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by AquaHerp on July 16, 2006
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I second Rob's post. As keepers we are bound to towing the line as to what we provide our animals with on a nutritional plane. If it ever comes down to a matter of dollars and cents then that's when a person needs to rethink keeping that animal in the first place.
Big cats and wolves are a primary example of cheapening on the bill and paying the toll later. When fed a cheaper diet of just muscle meat (primarily chicken necks, and red meat) the animals were found to suffer long term issues with skeletal problems, renal failure, blindness, teeth issues and more. Not much of a savings eh? Basically, these are whole animal feeders and need a whole animal diet in one fashion or another, be it a whole carcass or a specially prepared diet that provides all of the know vitamins and minerals.
But alas, not always so cut and dry. The crocodilians at St. Augustine Alligator Farm began showing issues for a while with their health, one of them being abnormal tooth loss, splaying, and growth inhibition. Even though these animals were still being fed nutria carcasses, bones and all, it was traced back to the fact that they had begun using nutrias that had been gutted and thus had no internal organs, primarily the liver, to offer the crocs as part of their much needed nutritional regimen. Once the nutria in their entirety was fed again, the health issues subsided and eventually disappeared.
So you see the value of nutrition can never be underestimated. Simply because an animal is getting something down its throat does not mean it's going to sustain it for the long haul. Quality, not quantity. These animals have not only spent that last few hundred millennia doing what they do, but also being what they are, and that's something we need to keep in mind when deciding how well we want to care for them on our own personal level.
Doug Hotle
General Curator
Abilene ZOOlogical Gardens
Abilene, Texas
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by SwampY on July 16, 2006
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I didn't mean to imply that would be the *only* thing they'll eat.
I've seen the effects of a cotton that was powerfed on nothing but chicken legs. Granted, it was a massive butterball of a 16 lb cotton with scales the size of your thumbnails, but it also lived a fairly short life.
Chad
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by BWSmith on July 16, 2006
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Just as a reference. The Cottonmouth (PK) only gets her gizzards and hearts as a treat. They are leftovers when i buy too much for the Water Monitor.
The monitor is 5' and gets rats, mice, whole chickens (the smell is interesting), whole quail, Beef hearts, Beef Liver, Chicken hearts, Chicken Gizzards, Chicken breasts, eggs, ground beef, ground turkey, Frog Legs, Whole trout, sometimes I mix in a little cat food and egg. And of course, vitamin and calcium supplements.
I didn't want anyone thinking it was a staple for the snakes or any other animal in the collection.
B W Smith
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by AquaHerp on July 17, 2006
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Knowing both of your backgrounds I didn’t figure either one of you would go that route as a staple diet. I was just chiming in, as I am sure Rob was, in the hopes that someone else wouldn't read the posts and pick up on thinking of shortcutting their animals as far as dietary needs.
You guys wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) all the crazy things I hear on a weekly basis from people out there that they are feeding their pets because they got the info from the internet of the "guy at the pet shop" Not just herps, but a little of everything.
DH
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by Cro on July 17, 2006
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Reminds me of once hearing a guy at a pet shop tell the people that had just purchased a ball python, that they should feed it grapes !
You know, I have been trying for years, and still can not get pythons to eat grapes ! LOL !
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by ALA_snake33 on July 17, 2006
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It is true, Cottonmouths are not Fussy Eaters. I have heard of some very odd meals being eaten, these include Raw Chicken Legs, Sliced Raw Ham, and a lot of other odd things. You know how they say the Tiger Shark is the Garbage Disposal of the Sea, well, I think the Cottonmouth is the Garbage Disposal of the Snake World. PS :These facts have drawn me to Admire this Species very much, they are my favorite Species Indigenous to North America, but, as you all know I am an Agkistrodon Lover anyway “LOL”. By the way, don’t Pythons have the right to choose if they want to be vegetarian? “LOL”. ..........................Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: Thank you to BWSmith
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by Atrox788 on July 18, 2006
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Just because a cottonmouth will eat anything dosent mean it should. In contrast most snake species will eat anything that was once alive and that can fit in their mouths. They are, like all animals opirtunistic eaters.
Cottonmouth and Copperheads are 2 species of snake that are renouned glutans in captivity. They retain, generaly speaking the feeding behavior but just like dogs, we must watch what the eat.
As was said, whole animals provide a wider source of nutrients. In snakes this holds espeicaly true since the animals devour every part of their prey. They digest the whole body, hair, bones and flesh alike. Even the hair has important nutrients that wouldnt be obtained had they had the ability to use a knive and fork :P (I.E cut off the peices that taste good)
I guess the purpose of my post is that its ok to use your cottonmouths as garbage cans from tiem to time but just because they will eat stinky, rotting mice that other snakes would touch dosent mean they should every time and have that as the only thing they eat.
BTW, sup swampy and BW. BW, how is PK doing? This is Jeremy G btw. Long time guys!
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