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Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by kacz on July 21, 2006
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This question is prompted by the rather sketchy newspaper account regarding the recent fatal coral snake bite. There is a ton of information about the relationship between alcohol and the cause of snake bite. But, how about the effects? Is alcohol synergistic with any of the toxins found in snake venoms?
Thanks,
Paul
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by GREGLONGHURST on July 22, 2006
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While I don't have anything handy to back it up, I would say that alcohol in fact makes a venomous bite worse. I do remember reading that all of the fatal Gila bites involved alcohol.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by Chris_Harper on July 22, 2006
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Alcohol isn't directly synergistic with snake venoms. Rather, the impaired decision making skills, sometimes the decreased level of consciousness, and generally overall impaired mental and physical functions puts the person at increased risk to succumb to the effects of the venom. In this case I suspect someone probably told him to go lay down and sleep it off - or something of that nature.
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by flfiremedic on July 22, 2006
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No evidence to back it up, but I'd say yes to hemotoxins and "probably" to neurotoxins since ETOH is a depressant. Just my opinion.
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by Chris_Harper on July 23, 2006
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It depends on your definition of synergism I suppose. Actual physiological synergism occurs (what I'm thinking of) when 2 things work "together" so that the sum total of their combined effects is greater than their individual effects. In other words, 1+1 is greater than 2.
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/synergism.html puts it like this:
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"Our bodies have enzymes that are designed to do specific "jobs". For example, there is an enzyme that helps break down alcohol - this is why we do not stay intoxicated "forever" after consuming alcohol. These enzymes normally transform (metabolize) the foreign substances (alcohol in this example) into less toxic or non-toxic substances which are eliminated out of the body.
With synergism, an enzyme function could either be inhibited (restricted) or accelerated in some way. Either way, the result is that the chemicals are either "free" or "enhanced" to cause a greater biologic effect in the body."
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So you can have compounded effects, but that's not the same as direct physiological synergism. Any CNS depressant combined with a snakebite is going to compromise the patient's airway moreso than without it, but in the presence of a medically controlled airway, we give snakebite patients morphin don't we? So, the CNS depressants aren't doing anything to actually "enhance" the venom, therefore it's safe to give them in a controlled enviroment.
In the case of the neurotoxins, I'd say their effects will overshadow anything that ETOH is going to do as if it wasn't even there. You're definitely more likely to be bitten and less likely to do take the right course of treatment if you have been drinking, so alcohol and snakebites are always a bad idea.
But if I had to argue for the other side, alcohol does inhibit platelet aggregation, and rattlesnake venoms destroy platelets and clotting factors, so I suppose the combined effect could be considered synergistic in relation to blood thinning.
I'm glad we got that worked out. :-)
~CH
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by LarryDFishel on July 24, 2006
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I'm sure Chris did a better jon of answering the specific technical question you asked than I can, but here's one thing to keep in mind for the case you mentioned:
Some of the symptoms of a coral snake bite are very similar to the symptoms of beer. So the fact that he continued drinking might have prevented his buddies from noticing that he had a serious problem...
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RE: Synergism with alcohol and snake venoms
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by Phobos on July 25, 2006
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Here's a good example....
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/outdoors/tompkins/4061905.html
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