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once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by rickyduckworth on July 30, 2006
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ok, cottons are easy to get misinfo on, especially in a state where ALL are common......just want more input on ID
i can usually ID a western pretty well due to the overall black appearance as opposed to dark brown/muddy brown.........the heads are also easily distinguishable too
but the florida/eastern seems like it could be interchangeable if not for the difference in range (like the timber/cane) but are there any visual points to really pick up on.......i've read one of my old posts from 4 years ago similar to this and i'm still not 100% sure.......the eastern has the lighter of the body patterns, though, right?
the head has the mask too......
now i've seen what should be easterns that if seen in south alabama would most definitely be called floridas......what am i missing.....i'm colorblind (in an unusual way, most colorblind people can see color much better than i can) so maybe that's my problem, but i've done alright in life so i think i'm just missing an important point or i just have to settle for the range difference, which to me seems like a cop out of sorts, just like with the timber/cane......our area is supposed to have canes, but they look like timbers from all over and no expert could tell them apart without knowing the range and i just feel like that's an easy way out
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by Cro on July 30, 2006
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Ricky, the problem with Cottonmouths in Alabama, is that the whole state is one huge intergrade zone.
NONE of the three Cottonmouths found in Alabama is a pure form. All are intergrades.
In the Northern two / thirds of your state, you have leucostoma integraded with piscivorus. In the South Eastern part of your state, you have conanti intergraded with piscivorus. Between these areas, you have all three types coming together.
Because of this, you will find Cottonmouths showing all kinds of colors and paterns and physical features. Some will look like Western Cottonmouths, some will look like Eastern Cottonmouths, and some will look like Florida Cottonmouths. Some will look like combinations of the above. NONE of them are pure populations !
If you want to see a pure Florida Cottonmouth, go to middle Florida. If you want to see a pure Eastern Cottonmouth, go to South Carolina or North Carolina. If you want to see a pure Western Cottonmouth, go to Lousiana or Texas or Missouri.
If you are in Alabama, forget about the color and pattern and facial markings of Cottonmouths, in trying to distinguish them, as NONE exist in a pure form in your state.
Hope this helps.
JohnZ
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by rickyduckworth on July 30, 2006
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now that makes sense........in a 100sq yd area, i've seen snakes that could be ID'd as all of the above....frustrating stuff
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by Cro on July 30, 2006
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We have almost the same situation with intergrades here in Georgia, although the Cottonmouths in the extreme N.E. Georgia range, are fairly pure Eastern`s, and those in extreme S.E. Georgia, below the Okefenokee Swamp, are fairly pure Florida`s.
What is really strange, is that some of those from S.W. Georgia, near Albany, look extremely like Western Cottonmouths.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by rickyduckworth on July 30, 2006
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well i have one that looks like your average western....i have one that looks like your average florida....i have one that looks like your average eastern and i have one that isn't too much darker than your average hype eastern, nice and light...and these were all living together.......the weird thing is that the one that looks like a western is maybe 2 years old and VERY dark.......the others his size are lighter like they're slowly losing their juvenile pattern
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by ALA_snake33 on July 30, 2006
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Ricky: most of the cottonmouth I have caught here in the Limestone Co. area resembled leucostoma more than any other. Now on the other hand, there is one place I Herp that the they seem to look more like piscivorous. I am willing to say that from area to area around here, populations could very well be deferent Subspecies. To be more clear, I think that with the separation of lands around this area, some of the Snakes are Crossing, but some still have their purity. Now, I do not claim to know everything, but, I think this would be a better bet than any. ...................Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by rickyduckworth on July 30, 2006
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i like the area between the arsenal and the airport, a little bit of everything there......been wanting to try out some places closer to decatur
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by ALA_snake33 on July 30, 2006
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Ricky, Limestone Co. has a lot of good places for Cottonmouth, especially in the Southern Parts of the Co. Only thing that throws some people off, is the fact that you have to walk 2-3 Miles to get to these places. If you are looking for some more places, call me or Email me, and I will show you some more places. It would be nice to have someone to Herp with, being I don’t know very many people that would be willing to walk that far. Plus, I really prefer not to go that far off track without company. Makes things just a little more dangerous. .................Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by rickyduckworth on July 30, 2006
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sounds good......i normally do it during lunch while at work or just after......of course we're about to get really busy again so i don't know when lol........been a busy year.......trying to get a canoe/flat bottom boat now.......
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RE: once again, florida/eastern/western cotton ID
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by ALA_snake33 on July 30, 2006
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Yeah, Canoes are perfect for Night Herping. You can follow the bank using a Headlamp or Spot Light. Be surprised how many Reptiles and Amphibians you will find using this method. .............................Be Safe Ya’ll, Happy Herping : Wally
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