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RE: DISHONESTY
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by SwampY on October 19, 2006
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Think of it like this -- you're hungry (for knowledge) and you come to this table and ask for food. You'll get a plate full of stuff. Some of it looks good, some of it looks nasty. Eat what you want and need and if you don't like the taste of the brussell's sprouts, just push them to the side with your mind-fork and chow down on the beans and taters :-)
Having food you don't need is better than starving to death (literally when it comes to venomous snakes)
Thank the people who are less than you, because their existence makes you look better. Summer wouldn't be nearly as appreciated if Winter didn't exist.
Chad
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by tj on October 19, 2006
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"Just their Pet Sentences. Such as "Its crap like this that causes legislatures to pass laws against people keeping reptiles". I have read that sentence in slightly altered forms so many times in so many places (not just here) that I want to sedate the people that are saying it because it never has any relevance to anything in reality, they have just gotten so used to saying it that they use it for everything."
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that quote has no revelance in someone keeping a highly dangerous snake? A snake that the person has neither the experience OR proper tools to safely keep?
Besides the HSUS AND PETA, you really don't think those have been reasons why legislation has passed?
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by Rob_Carmichael on October 19, 2006
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I have a feeling that some of the initial comments from the "young-ins" had to do with some of the things I, and a few others, have said in the past about young people and the issue of them keeping venomous. Well, those first two comments on this thread pretty much summed up why these same folks shouldn't own venomous....nice chips on those shoulders. YES, those of us who have been in the field for a while should always be willing to help out younger herpers; that's something I take very seriously. Those younger folks who demonstrate a high level of responsibility, knowledge, intelligence, RESPECT, etc will get a very positive response from those of us who are in a position to mentor someone like this. I have a number of young folks that I mentor on a daily basis so I do know how to connect with them and they do know that when it comes to keeping venomous, I take it very seriously and am very upfront about my opinions about irresponsible ownership. And the comments of "it's crap like this..." is one that any responsible hot herp owner should take very seriously. Every time some yahoo from the ground emerges in the news about something incredibly stupid in regards to how they keep venomous, it makes us all look bad. Those groups who want to ban the ownership of hot herps can simply come to this website and copy the info and show the lack of intelligence that some folks show in the way they post their comments; it can and does happen. If we don't self police ourselves, someone from the outside will do it for us and it's being done...it's called legislation against the private rights to keep venomous herps. We need to project ourselves in a much more intelligent, professional and responsible manner. So, to call anyone dishonest for making a remark to a PUBLIC FORUM POST is absolutely ridiculous. I, too, am surprised that more folks haven't come down harder on some of these statements. The SHHS has a great mission statement and a wonderful purpose (and is wealth of info for many people); I would like it to establish some clear guidelines on what "they" feel is the minimum age that you should be to keep venomous. I have my own opinions but I'll keep those to myself (it's rather obvious). That may force me to bite my lip more. There seems to be a trend of younger and younger folks keeping venomous w/out the proper experience, maturation, resources, psychological development, ability to make sound judgements, etc and that to me, is pretty scary stuff (just like it's equally scary to see adults doing the same...so, I'm not showing partiality one way or the other). My lip hurts, I'll shut up.
Cheers,
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by captiveherps on October 19, 2006
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YoungHerp1, I think a big part of why you are getting responses that you don't like is because you are asking people about making hybrids, which is something most herpers, especially people who keep venomous are very against. I don't understand why you want to cross everything. Why not breed your gaboons with gaboons, and whitelip with a whitelip ?. As someone who makes his living in the reptile trade I can tell you most buyers don't want cross bred snakes.
rabbitsmcgates, I don't know how you can complain that people say "Its crap like this that causes legislatures to pass laws against people keeping reptiles". Based on what you have posted, 99% of people on this forum will believe you are not following safe handling procedures, and that you are in way over your head keeping the snakes you say you do. Every time something makes the news, it hurts our hobby.
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by YoungHerp1 on October 19, 2006
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I was seeing if it was possible. The gabinos, are breed alot also. I dont mean any offense to anyone. I just want to gain the knowlegde i need. I take herping very seriously. Some people like hybrids, and some dont. I like them. Im just askin if its possible to do with the popes and white lips. I respect all of your opinions, but i just wish i can get answers. I no that some of you will give me your experiances too. that helps sometimes. But i have respect for all of you guys on this site. Im young and im going to be doing this for a very very long time. Thanks Cro also, youve helped me the most.
Best regards. Young herp (mike)
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by plainblain on October 19, 2006
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I did not make the connection that RABBITSMGATE on this post, who feels that younger herps on this forum are not treated with the respect they think is due them, is the same man that posted regarding the forest cobra. When I read Karl's post, I realized who this guy is.
When I read the forest cobra post the other day, it blew me away so bad I could not respond. And like Karl, I was suprised more members did not go apeshit(no offense meant... to primate lovers).
When you (rabbitsmgates) posted that post, it was obvious that you were suprised at what you had and felt way over your head and asking for suggestions. Good experienced forest cobra guys told you flat-out what a dangerous snake it is. But when you posted on this thread, it told me you did not like their responses and you feel they are not encouraging you to step-up to the plate and keep the snake or that they were are disrespecting you.
The hobby of keeping animals that can/will kill you if you don't follow proper technique and procedure is not unlike many other hobbies that can result in death. Mountain climbing, skydiving, scuba diving, auto racing, skate boarding(?), extreme sports, piloting small planes etc., etc.
Each one of these hobbies have skill levels that people move through as they become more proficient. In the less regulated hobbies, like climbing mountains, if you you decide to jump a skill level simply because you want to, all the other climbers will talk trash about you and not climb with you. You will be ostracized.
What you have done if you are keeping that forest cobra can be analagous to a good climber that can scale a 900 to 2000 foot wall and decideing they are going to climb Mt. Everest, without a guide. You are a dead man if you do.
Get rid of that snake, my friend. It might be the smartest thing you have ever done. A few months ago, I bought a trans pecos copperhead from a guy. When I got him, a huge Blacktail rattler was in the bucket also and I had to take it. I didn't even have the tools to remove the rattler from the container. Once I got possession of the bucket, sitting in the front seat of my car, I called Tim Cole and told him I was in a jam. He told me to come right over and I gave him the rattler and I was home-free. I gave Tim that rattlesnake becuase I do not have the tools, skill level or comfort level to deal with it. Mr. Rabbitsmgates, judging from your post the other day, you are in a similiar position.
Do the right thing man and unload that snake fast. And I am not disrespecting you, I am simply sharing a similiar experience.
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by rabbitsmcgates on October 20, 2006
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Well, if people would go back over to the Forest Cobra post the way they should and see what is going on then they would already know what is going on. But they haven't of course, they are just crapping on me because they already have decided ahead of time what is going on and don't need to actually find out. Which is just the stuff this topic was talking about to begin with.
But the Forest Cobra situation is just recent stuff and I was and am agreeing with the original posters ideas over the long term. That the questions often aren't addressed in favor of BS and Pet Sentences. And the Pet Sentence I gave is used so often in so many situations against so many people with so many pets that it is just a meaningless scare tactic now, equivalent to the boogeyman is going to get you if you don't do what I say. That is what I think.
Oh, by the way, I just got my new Standard hook and tongs in the mail! I know you are jealous!
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RE: DISHONESTY
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by Atrox788 on October 20, 2006
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Well, I once was considered a "youngin" and I definately fall into the category of bad grammar and punctuation. I think I get respect from those here who know who I am based on being in this community for almost 10 yrs and haveing done some pretty niffty things in this hobby. I have bred A.lubricus and at one time had probaly the second or third largest collection of Aspidelaps in the US.
Anyway, this isnt about how cool I am. This is about the way you feel towrds those who dont see eye to eye with you.
I had a few encounters like this but the one thing that got me over it was that 9 times out of 10 they were right. Once you spend enough time reading post from members you get a grip of who is who, who knows what and who dosent know a damn thing. I knew that if Karl or Rob disagreed with what I was trying to do (as an example), how I was trying to tail, disagreed with my my attempts at free handleing (another example which I never have done)that there was a damn good reason for it.
Being young means you have to pick your fights. AT your age the world is your oyster, you feel on top like you are the man. Thats fine but somtimes you have to reconsider your position, see past the pride and realize there is a reason respected people say what they say. Your action reflect this hobby, as do mine and everyone elses. If you come off as a bad representative to this comunity for cource people are going to give you crap about it.
Now, your specfic stance on Hybrids is another issue. Hybrids fall into the same category as venomoids. They are both looked down on by most serious herpers. Instead of getting mad at the unfavorable responses why dont you sit back and ask your self, why do people dislike this?
Regarding hybrids specificly, the problem is your looking to create a inferior animal. Your attempting to do somthing that is unatural generaly. There is also the potential of your offspring getting into the hobby and being bred with pure breeds and then being passed off as somthing natural when it isnt. Then the chain can continue on and on and your depleting the hobbies gene pool because now there is a long paper trail to fallow to get to the exact origins of said snake.
Not too mention the potential health problems Hybrids can have.
Your basicly attempting to play sorta speak and everytime people try to play god bad things happen.
Ask yourself, why do you want a hybrid? Because they look pretty? Lets take Gabinos for insttances. Yes they are pretty but so are rhinos and gabbis by themselfs.
What are you trying to accomplish?
I know your coming here for knowledage from the experts and as a genneraly rule serious venomous snakes keepers are probaly the most knowledageable of all since you SHOULD be in the top percent of the herp community to work with these animals.
If hybrids are your main focus then perhaps you should look for info elsewhere because you will find 90 percent plus of this community condems them includeing myself.
If your going to continue coming here the best way to get answers is first ask questions catored to the people on this site and second, act respectfull. This post was far from it.
Swallow your pride, give respect to those who know more then you and peice together the info as you see fit. Your coming here for help, not visa versa. We are not obligated to give you any information. We do so when we feel it deserved. Post like yours are hardly worth the effort to type out when you come off spouting like a kid.
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by rickyduckworth on October 20, 2006
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older guys have the same problem with respect that younger guys do and that's an irrelevant point. all that matters is common sense and knowing yourself well. i respect people based on a myriad of things but age and experience really don't mean anything. people will do things the wrong way for a lifetime and some just have natural abilities that allow them to do things right from day one.
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by rickyduckworth on October 20, 2006
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reinventing the wheel is also pointless though. before you can 'do it better' you have to know all available info. build off the knowledge of others and you can better the hobby. i am confident enough to deal with any snake but i learn better ways to do it from older guys from time to time. just stay openminded and hungry, but be smart and know the consequences of stupidity
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