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Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by rabbitsmcgates on October 29, 2006
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Everyone here either wants to keep venomous reptiles or already does. There are people here who claim to have kept them for decades so they presumably know how to care for them. Yet, I gather that posting Care Sheets is taboo for some reason. Why is that? It would help to know, for instance, that the care of a Black Forest Cobra will be quite a bit different than a Black Pakistan cobra even though they look very much alike besides size. I use that example because there is no information for taking care of a Forest Cobra anywhere that I have found, except in the brains of the people here. And the extent of the written info in books is they are black, they are the longest African cobra, and they are often mistaken for Black Mambas because they are so thin, and they live in forests. Nothing about them attacking you, nothing about them being avoided even by expert venomous keepers because they are so dangerous, nothing about their venom being more toxic, if it is, or less toxic, if it is, than any other cobra. So there could be someone who buys a Forest Cobra thinking it will be like the other cobras but bigger and gets it home and puts the bag in the cage, the cobra hurls itself out of the bag, the buyer discovers the cobra is coiled muscle and steel springs nearly half as tall as them about as thick as their wrist and spread hood, mouth gaped open hissing and preparing to lunge at them. Suddenly the two mini hooks don't seem like much help. The hook is held agaist the hood and it cannot move forward which distracts it. Cardboard is put in front of the shins, great it'll just bite the crotch. :( The hooks are used alternately to try to get it into the permanent cage. Oh yes, that's right, a six to seven foot angry Forest Cobra that needs to be shifted into a cage using two mini hooks. Sweat rolls down in rivers, possibly dehydrating the buyer by the time the Cobra scares them numerous times and almost gets away but then suddenly the chance comes and its in the cage! The cover is closed and it attacks the side and top and everything else and the buyer has never seen anything like it. Before the snake hurts itself the buyer puts a rat in there for it ro take its aggression out on. It works but...wow, to think THAT would have been geared at the buyer!
And that is why you should have Care Sheets.
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by snakeguy101 on October 29, 2006
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it's not that we don't want to post care sheets but we simply don't have time. I am busy 24/7 between tenis, acting, school and work. as soon as I have a second of spare time I would LOVE to help out with care sheets.
Chris Hartmann
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by Cro on October 29, 2006
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Michael, you state ``there is no information for thaking care of a Forest Cobra anywhere that I have found, except in the brains of the people here.``
Perhaps you should have asked some of the ``brains`` here FIRST before you went out and purchased that Forest Cobra?
I bet many of the same folks who answered your post would have advised you on how much ``Fun`` Forest Cobras are to keep. And I bet they would have told you to not purchase the snake, and why there are so many huge Forest Cobras for sale at very cheap prices!
Care Sheets are fine in a general way, but if you had read on a care sheet that Forest Cobras are evil psychopaths that just want to kill folks, would it have kept you from purchasing the snake?
Folks, if you are contemplating purchasing a new snake, especially a venomous snake, ask here FIRST !
That way you can have the proper advise and caging set up in advance, or perhaps avoid the purchase all together. The ``brains`` here represent hundreds of years of venomous reptile experience, and are a far better resource than any Care Sheet will ever be.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by Rob_Carmichael on October 29, 2006
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Most of us who do this professionally, or, as a serious hobbyist are VERY busy and have little time to write long winded care sheets. Yes, you are right, they are very important, and its great to see so many on this site, but as someone else mentioned, it is very easy to post some basic husbandry questions about a paticular species and get some well thought out answers....people are here to help if you ask.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by GREGLONGHURST on October 29, 2006
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I can pretty much guarantee you that if you had mentioned ahead of time that you were thinking of purchasing a melanoleuca, & that the equipment you had consisted of a couple of mini hooks, you would have been advised to either buy more equipment or forgo the purchase.
There are several people on this forum who know that between their arboreal nature, which includes a prehensile tail, their potential for larger than average cobra size, & overall distain for snake handlers, the species should be considered for possession by experienced elapid keepers only.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by rabbitsmcgates on October 30, 2006
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Oh, I have made multiple mistakes that fortunately have turned out okay so far. What has motivated me with this question is different comments I remember people making over the years [admittedly, I stay away from here for months or years] that seemed to indicate that Care Sheets for venomous snakes would somehow be wrong to post. And since this has been on here for so long the "don't have time" excuse seems to lose some of its power. So it seems like there must be some other reason. It might be "I don't have to tell you anything, so I'm not going to". That is the reason most mentioned when talking with the younger herpers. Certainly no one has to do anything here.
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by Rob_Carmichael on October 30, 2006
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I couldn't disagree with you more. First, I read your profile and you seem to have some nice credentials (and you're a fellow Midwesterner like me so I know you are a good person!); ironically, when I read your posts, I was thinking that it was another teenager throwing a big rant again; just a teenager who could put sentences together. I don't know a single person who is a long time herper who is not willing to provide valuable and detailed information about husbandry and even captive breeding....I get calls and emails every day from people all over the world and I return every single call/message that comes my way (it may not happen right away, but I do return all calls). I have even picked up many great tips throughout the years that has helped my operation. I've made many great contacts and some very close friends on this web site which is why I love this profession and hobby so much. But to just expect these same folks to write lots of care sheets is just plain ridiculous. I write quite a few caresheets that I provide to people upon request (particularly those species that I keep and breed) and you can go to many of our websites and find easily downloadable care sheets.
But, if you are looking for care sheets about many species of venomous snakes, I would recommend getting Trutnau's "Venomous Snakes In The Terrarium" book.....it covers just about every venomous snake you can think of and covers things like natural history but more importantly, excellent husbandry advice. I would strongly recommend that you add this to your library; you'll love it because it's 300 pages of care sheets.
Cheers,
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by rabbitsmcgates on October 30, 2006
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With all of these care sheets that you write for other people, couldn't you put a copy in the File Library here? And the same with all the other people who do care sheets for people? The sorta general idea I get is that posting care sheets would encourage people to keep venomous reptiles and that is bad in some way. So if no care sheets are posted then people won't know how to take care of them and that will discourage them from keeping venomous reptiles which is good in some way. Except people aren't logical like that and will try to keep them whether they know how or not and so the reptiles suffer because of it.
And that's the other reason you should post Care Sheets.
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RE: Why don't you want to post Care Sheets?
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by Cro on October 31, 2006
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Michael, I will have to dissagree with you about the Care Sheets. People here want nothing more than to help educate folks in the proper care of venomous reptiles. This can be seen by them answering hundreds of questions on this forum.
The lack of care sheets is because, as Rob stated, it takes time to write and post them, and a lot of folks just figgure that someone else will do it, or that there might be more qualified folks for a particular type of snake. For instance, I could write a care sheet for Bushmasters based on my experiences with them at AZP, but would much prefer to see Dean Ripa or Matt Harris write a care sheet for them, as they have tons more experience with that snake.
Also, if you read a care sheet, it will have a general description on how one individual or institution keeps a certain type of snake.
The care of a particular snake might differ greatly at another institution or with another keeper.
When you post a question here on the forum, and search the past posts, the answers you get will be from many individuals who have kept that type of snake. It is as if you are getting dozens of care sheets in one.
If it has to be a care sheet for you, then print out the answers you get here in the experts forum, and write ``care sheet`` across the top.
Hope this helps.
Best Regards JohnZ
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