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RE: non-venomous used as hot trainers
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by LarryDFishel on November 26, 2006
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I basically agree with what's been said, but let me diverge just a little with the above and with what I'm sure I've said in the past:
If you simply don't have access to a mentor and/or venomous snakes and you want to do some practice until you do...
Just use hooks with EVERY snake you have access to...all the time. But don't think of it as simulating handling venomous snakes, just think of it as practice using hooks. There are things you will learn, like planning ahead on which side of the snake the hook needs to be on to have the head pointed toweards the cage when you get him there. You might even notice things like "oops, I was standng 2 inches from that container when I opened it" and make mental notes.
But don't worry about whether this or that non-hot acts like this or that hot, because the Green Mamba I have at home doesn't act like the Green Mamba at the refuge, and the Black Mamba at the refuge acts somewhat like a particularly docile corn snake, whereas the Black Mambas we used to have acted like a cross between Black Racers and Tree Boas, on crack, that just had a mouse trap close on their tails.
Basically, the practice may help with your dextarity, but it's really no substitute for working with real hots with a mentor who can back you up if circumstances or your adrenaline get the better of you (if you're not scared the first time, you're doing it wrong). With a mentor, you will probably also be using HIS snakes, which means he can say "this snake RIGHT HERE acts like THIS" to help minimize surprises until you have a handle on things.
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RE: non-venomous used as hot trainers
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 27, 2006
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This topic has popped up from time to time. Having worked with venomous herps for quite a few years (I won't say how long professionally since that seems to piss people off) and in the end:
non venomous snake = non venomous snake
venomous snake = venomous snake
there is no crossover of any kind. Sure, you can find a nasty coachwhip or black racer and "pretend" that its a deadly mamba, or a big aggressive borneo short tailed python and pretend its a gaboon, but your mental awareness, preparation, confidence level, adrenaline levels, etc are like night and day when dealing with a fully loaded mamba versus a highly aggressive colubrid; it's almost as simple as that. I still remember my first mamba encounter - made every mistake in the book despite my "readiness" as I had practiced with the very snakes that have been described; your mind just sort of goes blank and you go more in a "survival of the fittest" or "fight or flight" mode. Through experience, though, you become more comfortable in working with these venomous herps but that only comes with many years of gradually building of experience. In the end though, the best course of action, as has been advocated on this thread is to:
1) gain plenty of experience with non venomous herps - no, not so much to pretend that they are venomous but to hone your husbandry skills, use of snake hooks, shields, hemostats, tubing, etc.
2) find a good person to mentor under; yes, that's a luxury but that is always the first way to go if at all possible. By learning from someone who has kept them responsibly for many years, you will quickly master the proper safety techniques for working with them.
3) Don't get in over your head. Start small....keep a smaller species of venomous snake for a while; something that local hospitals may know how to treat (local species = ready supply of antivenin). I usually find myself recommending a smaller species of rattlesnake like a pygmy, banded rock, or southern copperhead - these can all give you a terrible bite but for a good first venomous, they are usually fairly manageable.
4) ALthough I always advocate keeping your own supply of A/V, at the very least make arrangements with the closest hospital and have something in writing stating that you have their approval to come there should you need access to A/V (realize this, paying for A/V at a hospital will be astronomical).
Many good points here....and no major flame throwing. We're getting there.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: non-venomous used as hot trainers
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by keyz on December 4, 2006
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It is kind of like saying that you once had a cap gun as a kid, so you should now be able to safely handle a real firearm. Quote Cro,
This is exactly what i think about the issue plain and simple, A venomous is venomous, Handling a non venomous feisty snake will only cause bad handling techniques due to the fact that over a time you will not be in a life or death situation with a ETB, You will with a viper!u should get metored by someone , handle non venomous by all means and yes a knowledge of handling snakes is very useful, But you need someone to learn from, (watch and learn) Then listen and learn and when u feel ready ask to handle a mildly venomous herp(S) for a while, till you are confident and educated enough to handle, and, or own them,just my opinion, keyz
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