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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by LordViperTX on January 30, 2007
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This is where I am torn... I once took in a one-eyed (injured) forest, sight unseen, because I have a soft spot for naja in general, and wanted to see it cared for. It turned out to just have about four unshed eyecaps, and recovered completely. It is now on public display in a collection here in Texas.
Sometimes I see ads for voids that are pretty cheap and I hit an ethical/emotional brick wall. I hate to purchase one, as I don't support the practice. However, I don't want to see it picked up by some yutz with his first kingsnake that thinks it "Would be totally rad to, like, really own a real King Cobra, man!"
So, do I spend the rest of it's life justifying to others why I own a void so that I can keep it out of the hands of someone who has no business with a cobra? Will removing one that has already been butchered only short the market, forcing another to be created to take its place to meet the demand?
Or do I just spend too much time arguing with myself? ;^)
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by Snake18 on January 31, 2007
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Dear sarecho7280,
I don`t owe any one apologies.
This is a venomous reptile website. The practice of making venomous is slaughter indiferent of how it is made. It may come to a surprise to you but this principle is extremely common on this site, and I`m sure that I speak for at least 90% of the people on this site when I say that.
Just check out the address: www.VENOMOUSreptiles.org, not www.VENOMOIDreptiles.com
How the hell was I supose to know that Irishviper wasn`t just another a-whole trying to make big bucks of of butchering reptiles. Irishviper knows as well as I do that the people here don`t tolerate crap like venomoid surgery. He should have specified the conditions under which he was selling that poor snake.
Honestly, I would preffer that venomous snakes should be killed instead of "surgicaly altered" = BUTCHERED.
Alex
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by LordViperTX on January 31, 2007
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Scenario....
You see a crying woman and a man with her. The woman has, obviously, just been raped. Do you presume the man did it and just beat the hell out of him, or do you find out if he might actually have just RESCUED her from the rapist?
In your zeal you just assaulted the rescuer.
I don't believe in voids either. However, I won't bash everyone who has one because of the reasons stated in my previous post. I don't hold the animal responsible for it's venomoid condition. It can't help it. I feel the urge to remove it from the community of misguided individuals who think it's okay, and may very well treat them poorly. I feel that acceptance of devonomization illustrates a lack of understanding of the animal. Lack of understanding of the animal can easily mean lack of ability to properly care for one.
Obviously YOU are one of the folks I worry about in my previous post. If I rescued one of these animals and cared for it I would constantly be abused and verbally assaulted by people like you who will immediately jump to conclusions and presume that I am responsible for it being butchered in the first place.
With age comes wisdom, tact, and forethought. You're 19. Hopefully you'll learn these skills as you mature.
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by Chris_Harper on January 31, 2007
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Just simply for point of thought, I have been contacted by multiple individuals over the years that are/were in the same boat as "Irishviper". They take a venomoid snake because they feel sorry for it, or they rescue it, someone has abandoned it etc. Then, when it's time to move on, they are afraid to advertise it in the classifieds because of the stigma that will be attached to them. AND, you would be surprised if you knew who some of these people are. One individual that I KNOW has a venomoid, has been seen wearing a "No Venomoids" t-shirt. But he bought someone else's entire collection, and that was just part of the package.
CH
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Owning/rescuing venomoids
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by LordViperTX on January 31, 2007
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That's what I'm talking about. I think that, personally, I would feel good about making sure it was in a situation where it was properly cared for and respected. But people feel so strongly about it that they let it cloud their judgement, and not just young people like our 19 year old friend here.
I try hard to give my reptiles the best environment I can. I don't want all of that undermined by judgemental people hearing my name come up in converstaion and saying "Oh, THAT guy...he keeps venomoids!"
I would never buy one from a venomoid dealer. I would never have the procedure done UNLESS it was necessary to save it's life. I would NEVER recommend that anyone else buy one from a dealer. However, as you stated, (unfortunately) they exist...and it is unfair to turn your back on them for being venomoid.
If you're against venomoids..don't hate the venomoid ANIMALS...hate those that want/create them.
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by milksnakegreg on January 31, 2007
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http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=40&de=458660
hey guys maybe we lay off this poor guy it seems to me like he was trying to help an animal in need and as a conservationists and herp lovers we should be comeding this man for helping this poor animal granted even if he was trying to sell it he was getting a good home for it this lady in the url at the top is trying to make it sound like we cant live without her venomoid by calling it "smoking" at least irsh vipers was just a simple ad to find a new home for the snake i am against venomoids but believe they should not be codemned for the mistakes of an owner and i think this animal deserves a good home and some of you guys maybe instead of arguing should be thinking of the animals condition and try to help find it a loving caring home where it will be loved and cared for
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by LordViperTX on January 31, 2007
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Well, I hadn't mentioned this part of the equation...but here is something else I look at...
If they are asking a "venomoid price" for a venomoid reptile they are selling it with the focus on it's condition rather than as another reptile. Venomoids are always priced higher, which is why the butchers create them.
If I see a venomoid (insert species here) priced the same price as a fully-equipped one, I presume it means that the person "ended up with it" in aquisition of a group or collection, and is just looking to rehome it. If it is priced the same as other venomoids I see it as a situation where they are trying to profit from it's condition, or they may have paid venomoid pricing for it themselves.
If anything I feel that opponents of venomoid procedures would sell these unfortunate animals at a DISCOUNT as most would agree that they are now disfigured, more prone to health issues and shortened lifespans, and essentially defective.
THE ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE NOT AIMED AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR. THEY ARE JUST GENERALIZATIONS AND PERSONAL OPINIONS.
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by Snake18 on January 31, 2007
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LordViperTX,
I didn`t bash any one. Just read my posts again and you will probably understand.
I got realy pissed off when "sarecho7280" told me I should apologise to "IrishViper" for jumping to conclusions and when "sarecho7280" sayd that some venomoids are ok because the procedurs were done properly. Check out his post.
Like I sayd, "IrishViper" should have mentioned the fact that he took in the animal out of compasion etc. in his original post. I wouldn`t have sayd anything. But all he sayd was that he was selling a very nice venomoid, great for epxos at 600$. Now if that doesn`t seem like any other guy trying to get rich out of butchering animals, I don`t know what does.
Also, I have nothing against the animals, I only hate the people who voluntarely contribute to the butchering of the animals.
Pay more atention to what people do say before jumping to conclusions, ok ?
Alex
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by LordViperTX on January 31, 2007
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"How the hell was I supose to know that Irishviper wasn`t just another a-whole trying to make big bucks of of butchering reptiles."
How were you supposed to know he WAS?
Prehaps an email inquiry before the whistle-blowing?
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RE: Venomoids advertising again...
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by Snake18 on January 31, 2007
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Don`t tell me that whenever you see a post where some one is selling a venomoid you think: "oh, the poor guy, he`s trying to find this butchered animal a home...how sweet". Let`s be serious.
Like I sayd, because of the volutile nature of this topic, he should have knew better and should have written all the detaill in the add.
Alex
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