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I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by jared on August 9, 2007
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I have been watching these forums for a long time and had to ask. If an outrught Ban on reptiles was passed countrywide tomorrow, would you all give up keeping? I mean i compromise (BEFORE coming to Va i got rid of all my prized locality canes) but a ban would make me a criminal (my passion runs deeper than legality). I just wonder how many are here for "thrills" and how many are really here for the future of these animals and there existance on the planet. I mean if prohibition were inacted tomorrow, would you all throw out your liquor, if it were legal to own slaves, would u buy one? It just seems to me there is alot of of people who are fly by night, and when the weather changes, there gone.
Jared
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by Buzztail1 on August 9, 2007
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Jared,
You asking people to post publicly if they would break the law.
Kind of incriminating, don't you think?
I understand the gist of your question but it is not really in anyone's best interest to post "They can have my snakes when they pry them from my cold dead hands."
Karl
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by Rob_Carmichael on August 9, 2007
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I couldn't agree more. No need to add fuel to the fire. Personally, I won't break the law and would find other outlets to enjoy herps. If a long line of threads start forming where people will blatantly tell government to kiss off (and then even more blatantly, break the law) the wrong people will take notice - we are already fighting a tough battle to protect our rights.
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by earthguy on August 9, 2007
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Karl is correct. However, I would probably continue keeping (depending on whether the "law" was statuatory law or regulations). I'll tell you why. An outright ban on keeping reptiles has no contituional backing. If I would break the law I would do so openly with the express intent of getting "caught". The Judicial branch is the only force that can challenge the Executive and Legislative branches, but they are powerless unless somebody is bold enough to bring forth tort.
Go read some 'Civil Disobedience". It may change your outlook on life.
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by Kingetula on August 9, 2007
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I'll give it a shot. (IMO)
It just depends on how they go about enforcing the law.
I feel laws are needed in many cases. I know the non-native reptiles and irresponsible people are ruining it for the rest of us but lets look at the animals we bought over from Europe or other countries that are now considered native. Heck many people think that the horses in America today are native. In fact they are not. Horses were in America at one time (15,000 or so years ago) but the wild horses in America today are not native to America. (I don't see anyone wanting to ban them) I know, everyone loves horses, how can we round them up and kill them? Are dogs and cats native to America? Ummm, maybe a wolf. But every day I see a stray dog running around. People let their cats go out at night even when the law says not to.
So yes, I would keep snakes if they enforced the reptile law like they do the cat and dog laws.
If the Government wants to ban my hobby and not others then I have a problem with it and I will fight back! I don't like selective attacks well they turn a blind eye to others.
I understand the problems in the everglades and Alligators being found in a California lake so I support some laws but the Government needs to find middle ground and not just ban it thinking that will solve the problem
On that note I really would like an Eastern Indigo but that snake needs protection and I obey the law. But to ban all reptiles... stupid law.
I try to obey the law so I may even be willing to give up my non-native snakes if they still allowed us to keep native snakes. It would be hard for some of us and I hope they would grandfather us in and let those new to the hobby only keep native reptiles.
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by LarryDFishel on August 9, 2007
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While I certainly don't equate "legal" with "right", I find it ridiculous to suggest that anyone who isn't willing to violate federal law to keep snakes is "fly by night".
Does that mean that people who are currently violating the law are higher class keepers that those of us who are doing it legally?
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by hot_herper on August 9, 2007
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I agree with Karl, Rob, and the rest who stated the same. An outright ban is unlikely to pass as the first case would be fought on the grounds of constitutional rights, and set precedence.
I consider myself to be a very knowledgable herper. With regards to keeping Hots I'm still a Novice by my own admission. I'm by no means an expert, but I feel quite competent and confidant in my abilities to work safely with reptiles, and I stay away from the ones that I am either afraid to work with, or are just too agressive for my ability level.
I live in Nevada, a state with quite open weapon's laws, but some of the most limiting reptiles laws in the nation. I follow the law not for my respect of the laws, but because if I were to say keep a Cobra illegally and get bitten I would put at risk the right to keep these snakes legally. Something I wouldn't want to do. The bad press and negative attention it would recieve are just not worth my own desires to keep certain animals. With any luck the army will send me somewhere that its legal, so I can once again work with my favorite snakes.
Ok enough babbling, back to work.
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by jared on August 10, 2007
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Thanks for your response king getula. No i dont think its incriminating because at this point a total ban is hypothetical. I do understand robs point regarding being monitored (everyone on the forum knows they watch). I didnt imply those are better keepers, just there are a large number (I have been a vendor at hamburg since 97, and columbia since 98 consistantly) of people who are not, and do it for other reasons (i have seen thousands of them). Also, again, i wasnt looking for responses regarding outright bans wont happen, its unconstitutional yadda yadda, lots of unconstitutional acts happen on a daily basis, and they continue to happen despite. I just wanted an honest answer, and got only one.
Jared
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by hot_herper on August 10, 2007
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Jared,
I gave you my honest answer. I currently live in a state where I can't keep the animals i want legally, and I don't keep them.
So if they were banned entirely, I would continue to not keep Hots. Not sure how much more honest it can get.
I love my animals, but i love not being in jail more.
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RE: I have wanted to ask this for a long time
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by jared on August 11, 2007
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Sorry I do see that now, i guess its the antiestablishment in me that has to ask, how far in the corner will u let YOUR government push you. Again it is our government, as stated "we the people.."
Jared
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