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Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by Rob_Carmichael on August 14, 2007
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Good evening,
As I was making my rounds today at my facility, I noticed my pair of Crotalus willardi locked up (and were locked up for over 6 hours). They were brumated this past winter/spring but are just now showing serious breeding behavior (and copulation). My original plan was to brumate them this fall/winter but now I am having some doubts. My gut instinct is telling me to keep them at optimal conditions in case their circadian cycle is a little out of whack and the female is developing viable offspring. A friend that I got them from, who I have a lot of respect for, echoed my same feelings. Any thoughts from the rest of the group?
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by hot_herper on August 14, 2007
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I've had non-hot breeders that bred "out of normal cycle" and ran about 60/40 getting viable eggs or clutch's when I kept them at optimal husbandry. worst case was I lost a pair for the coming season.
I have no experience bredding rattlers though, but who knows.... might get lucky and get some off season babies.
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by Buzztail1 on August 14, 2007
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Rob,
I recommend you contact Doug Hotle and Larry Lemon at the Abilene Zoo as they had success with willardi last year. They may have some useful observations that will help you. They both post on this site but may not be actively watching the forum and might miss your post.
R/
Karl
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by Cro on August 14, 2007
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Rob,
My rattlesnakes will often breed in both spring and fall. Especially the Timber Rattlesnakes and Carolina and Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnakes. I think that this is a normal breeding time for them. I do not believe that it is a messed up ciradian cycle, and I assume that the snakes will retain the males sperm while over-wintering, and might self fertilize themselves with the ovulation in the spring. And I know they will again breed in the spring, if males are available, and that will perhaps be the breeding that produces young, but there is no way to know for sure.
My snakes will be brumated in the late fall / winter, and I will expect offspring the next year in the summer / early fall at the normal time.
If this applys to Willards, that is difficult to say.
I would not keep my Carolina Pygmys at optimal conditions through the winter just because I observed breeding behavior at this time of year, and if I were lucky enough to own Willards, I would not keep them at optimal conditions during the winter, just because of fall breeding.I would keep them cool in the winter, to match the natural conditions they would be encountering in the wild, and then expect them to be active again in the spring, and breeding again in the spring, and producing offspring in the late summer / early fall, from their spring breeding, or from their retianed sperm from their fall breeding from the previous year.
If you have several Willards females, why not keep some of them at optimal conditions throught the winter, and brumate some of them, and see what works best ? Sounds like a good project. I will bet you a large mellow mushroom house special pizza that those kept at optimal conditions that are not brumated will not produce spring young though. I think the will still have their young in the summer or early fall. But this is just speculation on my part.
Let us know what the outcome is from this venture.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by GREGLONGHURST on August 15, 2007
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John's point is a good one, Rob. I used to get baby A. p. conanti both Spring & Fall in a communal enclosure. I was not able to determine if the same females were birthing twice a year or not.
Also, sperm retention & even parthenogenesis has been documented in Crotalus.
~~Greg~~
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by Rob_Carmichael on August 15, 2007
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Thanks for all of the great replies and keep the comments coming! I am fully aware of spring and fall breeding of certain crotalines but my experiences have only been with eastern massasaugas and timbers (both of whom we observe to breed in both seasons in our group exhibits). I wasn't aware that willardi showed this same tendency. Our C. abyssus are expressing similar behaviors but our C. concolors stopped breeding behavior early this summer. Any additional thoughts are welcome (and encouraged).
Rob Carmichael
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by CrotalYES on August 17, 2007
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Obviously you should try to contact anyone who has had success w/ ridgenoses, but my gut says you brumate this winter as originally planned. I kept a carolina pig up because they bred late (meanwhile knowing that GA's male pigs chase tail in the fall), and she ended up dropping 13 slugs and 2 stillborns in December. I really regretted not putting her down in Oct. or so.
Good Luck,
Matt King
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by Cro on August 17, 2007
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Matt`s comment " I really regretted not putting her down in Oct. or so." is one I agree with, as I have had Copperheads do the same thing when they were not brumated after fall breeding activity.
This also leads to another idea I have been debating.
Those of us who live in Georgia are in the middle of the biggest heat wave / drought since 1934 !
Hopefully, the upcoming hurricane / tropical storm season will bring us cooler fall temperatures and much needed rain, however, I wonder, if the heat wave continues into October and November, if the wild snakes will delay returning to denning sites ?
Will the mountain Timber Rattlesnakes and Copperheads and Black Rat Snake delay their return to their winter dens because of the higher temperatures, or will they follow the moon / sun / day / night circadian cycles, and get to the dens at the usual time even though it is way hotter than normal, and they will have to wait longer before they can start using the dens ?
I am thinking of waiting until later this year before I retire the snakes for their winter rest. Perhaps in November. This whole year has been a strange one for herps, and should proove interesting as to how it affects next years herping.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: Thoughts on cycling Crotalus willardi
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by venom on August 17, 2007
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We've produced willardi willardi 2 years in a row now.
I pair them for a week or so just before they go down and for a week or so just after they come back up and shed.
Usually they will breed both times upon introduction.
I brumate them whether or not I saw breeding.
I figure in the wild, winter happens no matter what.
She is DEFINITELY taking this year off.
Hope that helps Rob - it works for us!
-Larry
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