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RE: FL owners info
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by tigers9 on October 9, 2007
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This is unreal, this state FL, has wild gators, cougars and snakes, and they worry about caged ones, pure AR crap.
Z
http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20071009/NEWS/710090325
Debate roars over wildlife permits
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By NATHAN CRABBE
Sun staff writer
12:00 am, October 9, 2007
The lions and tigers and bears stayed at home, but some of their owners came to a meeting Monday in Gainesville to fight a proposal that they notify neighbors if an animal escapes their property.
Continue to 2nd paragraph
The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is considering requiring holders of Class I wildlife permits to notify neighbors and local emergency personnel about escapes.
The permits are required for owners of big cats such as tigers, large primates like baboons and large wildlife like elephants, bears and rhinoceroses.
Commissioners had considered a much broader rule requiring anyone who obtains or makes changes to a Class I permit to notify neighbors.
But after permit holders raised privacy concerns, commissioners decided to move forward with a rule requiring notification only in the case of escapes.
The meeting in Gainesville and a meeting today in Fort Lauderdale will gather public comment before commissioners make a final decision in December.
Kathy Stearns, who runs a wildlife center in Dade City, said only the commission - and not neighbors - should be notified.
Telling neighbors of escapes could attract them to the scene and put them in danger, she said.
"That's going to put them more at risk and my animals more at risk," she said.
Debra Sandlin, an Archer resident who has Class I permits but currently has none of the animals, pointed out the lack of requirements that neighbors be notified of other potentially dangerous activities.
"They don't have to say, ���Hey I have 10 handguns and I like to fire them on my property,'� " she said.
There are 27 Class I permit holders in the Gainesville region.
They include zoos, wildlife sanctuaries and wildlife breeders.
While permit holders dominated the meeting, a handful of speakers said they supported notification requirements.
Jennifer Hobgood of the Humane Society argued the rules should be expanded to require owners of Class I wildlife, venomous snakes and wolves to notify nearby residents of permits.
"These animals pose a serious risk to public safety and citizens deserve to be made aware of their proximity to such risk," she said.
Jack Brown of the Santa Fe Community College Teaching Zoo said permit holders should take the time to talk with neighbors about their animals.
"You're going to have to be a responsible neighbor," he said. "The cat is out of the bag - they already know you have these things."
Barbara McDuffie said she lives near a Class I permit holder in Ocala and worries wildlife could harm the children at a nearby school.
"We have rights, too, for our own protection," she said.
Several speakers raised issues about a letter last week sent by Carole Baskin, founder of Big Cat Rescue in Tampa.
Baskin obtained a list of Class I permits holders, which is public record, and sent letters to their neighbors notifying them. "Keeping wild animals in private collections is cruel to the animals and dangerous for you," the letter said.
John Knight of Jacksonville said the letter was irresponsible and could invite people to shoot animals.
"We haven't seen the problems that that's going to cause yet," he said.
Nathan Crabbe can be reached at 352-338-3176 or crabben@gville sun.com.
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RE: FL owners info
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by Cro on October 9, 2007
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Zuzana, I agree with the Fish and Wildlife folks on this one:
"The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is considering requiring holders of Class I wildlife permits to notify neighbors and local emergency personnel about escapes.
The permits are required for owners of big cats such as tigers, large primates like baboons and large wildlife like elephants, bears and rhinoceroses."
I sure would want to know if one of your "pet" cats was roaming the neighborhood. Especially if I had "food size" kids. A kid seing a excaped big cat will run from it, and cause a response in the animal to chase the kid.
It is very selfish of you to want to keep mistakes you might make in caging a secret from your neighbors, if one of the animals gets out.
Your excuses like "there are wild big cats and bear in Florida," and "folks have guns in their homes" are not valid. The gun is not going to get up and eat a kid, and it is unlikely that wild Florida Panther or Bear would eat a kid also.
In this case, the Wildlife Commission has it right. If a Class 1 animal is loose, the folks around the area need to know about it. Just as they need to know if there is a dangerous human criminal in their area. And just as they need to know if there is a hurricane or tornado approaching, or if the ground meat they bought from Kroker has E.coli in it and will hurt their kids.
Now, if they change it to include every python that excapes, that is going overboard. But big cats, and chimps and baboons are much more potentially dangerous to the population than many other of the exotic pets folks keep.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: FL owners info
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by tigers9 on October 9, 2007
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OH, I have no problem with that, should one of my animals escape,god forbid, I would be calling everybody to warn them.
What FL owners object to is notyfying neighbors that they own exotics, even if NOT escaped, many exotics are expensive and people do not want it to be widely known.
Z
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RE: FL owners info
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by tigers9 on October 9, 2007
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let me aks the people quoted in the news what their reasoning was to not notify in case of an escape.
Z
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RE: FL owners info
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by tigers9 on October 9, 2007
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Here is response of one anonymous FL owner regarding Kathy’s edited comment in the news
<< No one is against the neighbors being notified. Our argument is who should do it and when. We know the animal the best and we need to keep it in site, or track it, or be actively looking for it until help arrives. Let FWC or local law enforcement notify neighbors to take their kids and animals inside. Our county even has a service that can dial the phone numbers of any targeted area and give people a recorded message. If my animal escapes, I'm going to be looking for it...not calling or visiting my neighbors>>
http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20071009/NEWS/710090325
<snip> Kathy Stearns, who runs a wildlife center in Dade City, said only the commission - and not neighbors - should be notified.
Telling neighbors of escapes could attract them to the scene and put them in danger, she said.<snip>
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RE: FL owners info
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by FLVenom911 on October 9, 2007
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ST PETERSBURG TIMES (Florida) 14 September 07 Wildlife disclosure rule rejected - Owners of exotic wildlife won't have to tell their neighbors what animals they own. (Craig Pittman)
St. Petersburg: State wildlife commissioners agreed Thursday that owners of potentially dangerous wildlife do not have to inform their neighbors about what's lurking on the other side of the privacy fence.
"There are probably pit bulls out there that are more dangerous than what some of these people are keeping," said commissioner Ron Bergeron.
More than 370 people statewide hold permits for what the state calls Class I wildlife, also known as the "Oh My" list, a name derived from a line in The Wizard of Oz: "Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!"
The owners of such wildlife must get permits, submit to inspections, meet caging requirements and keep their animals on property 5 acres or more in an area not zoned residential.
But this summer, after hearing from an Okeechobee County rancher, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission contemplated making owners take out a legal notice in the nearest newspaper disclosing what they own and sending all immediate neighbors certified letters.
Rancher Susan Williams told wildlife commissioners at their June meeting that she was horrified to learn that one of her Okeechobee County neighbors was keeping a tiger and five bears on his Crazy 8 Ranch. She worried about what might happen if they got loose.
The Humane Society of the United States backed the wildlife disclosure rule, too.
"We do think that in a state as prone to hurricanes as this one, folks should be notified about what's in their community," Jennifer Hobgood of the Humane Society said Thursday. "They have the right to know."
When Hurricane Andrew hit South Florida in 1992, more than 3,000 exotic animals - including boa constrictors, wallabies, iguanas and baboons - escaped private menageries and fled into the wilds of Miami-Dade County.
Hobgood pointed out that in 2003, neighbors in the Countryside Village Mobile Home Park in Town 'N Country were unnerved to learn that a resident was raising 26 deadly reptiles. They found out because his pet black mamba got loose and bit him.
But the wildlife commissioners were swayed by a parade of animal owners like Lisa Welch of Thonotosassa, who argued that requiring disclosure of her wildlife ownership "is such an infringement of my rights."
Palm Springs cougar owner Alan Rigerman pointed out that farmers ought to be required to disclose what livestock they own because cows are just as dangerous: "Bulls kill people. Horses and cattle kill people."
Gini Valbuena of Clearwater, who has owned chimpanzees for 22 years, predicted that disclosing what she owns would attract thieves and trespassers: "We're going to have children injured, and we're going to have people knocking on our doors saying, 'Let me see your monkey.'"
And longtime Gainesville reptile dealer Gene Bessette warned that if the rule passed, the next step would be requiring firearm owners to notify their neighbors about what guns they possess.
"A gun doesn't get up and walk out of its gun case," retorted Hobgood.
The commissioners, meeting in St. Petersburg, voted 6-0 to reject the proposed rule. They also voted to postpone until February implementing a liability law that requires owners of captive wildlife to put up a $10,000 bond or buy $2-million of insurance in case anyone gets hurt by their animals
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RE: FL owners info
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by FLVenom911 on October 9, 2007
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"State wildlife commissioners agreed Thursday that owners of potentially dangerous wildlife do not have to inform their neighbors about what's lurking on the other side of the privacy fence".
Z, FWC backs the Class 1 and 2 owners on this.
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RE: FL owners info
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by Cro on October 9, 2007
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Zuzana, I agree with you that "What FL owners object to is notyfying neighbors that they own exotics."
That is not needed at all, for many reasons including potential theft of animals, etc.
Just let us know if some potentially dangerous critter is roaming about, LOL ! Whould be a heck of a surprise to look up and find a excaped rhino or elephant in your back yard !
There is a big difference between the two, and I sure hope the folks making the laws down there know the difference !
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: FL owners info
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by FLVenom911 on October 9, 2007
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Then I should have the right to know when a convicted felon, especially one of a violent crime, lives next to me. I love their twisted reasoning...
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RE: FL owners info
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by tigers9 on October 16, 2007
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-----Original Message-----
From: Z [mailto:tigers9@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:02 PM
To: 'EPOU@yahoogroups.com'; 'REXANO@yahoogroups.com'; 'wethepeoplepets@yahoogroups.com'; 'Servals@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: BCR updated:bigger, better, uncut
http://www.rexano.org/bcr.htm
Information on Florida Big Cat Rescue, BCR, (formerly known as 'Wildlife on Easy street) and its co-founder Carole Baskin (formerly known as Carole Lewis)
Animal Welfare (AW) = Responsible Animal Use
Animal Rights (AR) = NO Animal Use
The Animal Rights Movement - FREE Posters
More than meets the eye?: The truth behind Big Cat Rescue BayNews9 expose video
Also in MSDOC or PDF transcripts - March 16, 2006
Wildlife on Easy Street (now Big Cat Rescue) incorporated in March 30th, 1995. The purpose was stated as: “Acquisition, Shelter, Feeding, Breeding and Socialization of exotic and non-exotic animals;…” According to Carole Stairs Lewis's (Baskin) December 1996 article 'How to Choose an Exotic Cat' published in 'Exotic Market Review', they already owned 120 exotic and wild cats acquired thru purchase or breeding. On February 5th, 1999, Carole Lewis made a post to Felines-L (private big cat owners E-list) announcing the total of 148 big cats at her facility. Current count, October 2007, using animal data from Big Cat Rescue website reveals the current total to be around 110 big cats. The facility was incorporated in 1995 with mostly young animals. At least 10 of their tigers are retired circus tigers and Ringling Brothers finances their caging and care. Considering BCR seems to have fewer cats now that they are 'rescuing' then they had in the past when they were buying and breeding, where are all the rescued big cats hiding?
Carole Baskin of Big Cat Rescue sending letters to exotic animal owners' neighbors to scare them in MSDOC or PDF Fall 2007
For More on Florida issues, click HERE
AR Fanatic Falsifies Data by Bart Culver, January 2007
Savannahs Do Make Great Pets, Don’t believe BCR’s Hype. By Brigitte Cowell, Ph.D., Kirembo Savannahs, October 2007 in MSDOC or PDF files Pictures of happy Savannah and other cats HERE
AR Fanatic Talks Conservation by Bart Culver, January 2007
Who says it is immoral to have wild animals as pets? By Bart Culver, February 2007
Some of the Wildlife on Easy Street ads placed in Animal Finder’s Guide circa April 1995 – February 1997
Too Purrfect Carole Lewis in 'People' magazine December 7, 1998 issue, discussing her husband's Don Lewis mysterious disappearance in MSDOC or PDF files (...Police did learn, that two months before he vanished, Don Lewis had filed court documents seeking a domestic-violence injunction against Carole, accusing her of threatening to shoot him...)
Exotic Cats as House Pets By Carole Stairs Lewis
Wildlife sanctuary faces federal charges after leopard attack 9/11/1998 (...Wildlife on Easy Street, the exotic cat sanctuary founded by Don and Carole Lewis, has been charged with 26 counts of violating the federal Animal Welfare Act...)
Caged leopard attacks sanctuary volunteer 9/4/1998 (...Carole Lewis, owner of the sanctuary, did not return a telephone message Thursday. Sheriff's deputies said Lewis was driving Harrell to the hospital ...)
Missing businessman sued over cougar bite 12/4/1997 (...Don and his wife, Carole Lewis, are named in the lawsuit, along with Wildlife on Easy Street...)
Carole Lewis (Baskin) article in LIOC (now known as FCF) magazine March/April 1998 issue (...Before he got sick, Fleetwood and his sister Enya were out of their cages more than they were in them. They spent many nights a week with cabin guests and were always out doing events, riding in the car or walking around the yard....)
Missing millionaire worries family 9/19/1997 (...In June, Lewis told a Hillsborough circuit judge that his wife threatened to kill him, but the judge did not see a danger. ...Critics say Lewis turned the refuge, which is organized as a Florida not-for-profit corporation, into another business. They say he bought cats cheaply at auctions and then sold them to buyers impressed by the center's non-profit status...)
How to Choose an Exotic Cat By Carole Stairs Lewis (Baskin) as published in 'Exotic Market Review' December 1996
Two roaming cougars back in cages 8/7/1996 (...Wildlife officials said the Lewises may be cited for unsafe housing permitting the escape of the cougar, a misdemeanor. In June, the World Society for the Protection of Animals gave Wildlife on Easy Street poor marks for living and safety conditions...)
Searchers continue hunt for cougar 8/6/1996 (...A tame 80-pound cougar escaped about 7:30 a.m. and was still missing at 10 p.m. after a 12-hour search Monday, wildlife experts said...)
It's a bitter case of leopard custody 4/24/1995 (...The leopards, owned by Jack Don Lewis of Tampa, were seized in August by the Florida Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission because Lewis did not have the appropriate permit...)
Big Cat Rescue, Making money on big cats!
ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS By Cougar Ridge - (...Their newest tactic is to call in multiple false complaints on the few like me who have the guts to stand up to them. The State and the Federal Officials know what is going on and are angry themselves. It not only wastes their time, but wastes taxpayer money...)
THE TRUTH as reported in the past by BCR, in their own words As currently reported/presented by Big Cat Rescue
Here is the TRUTH about the healthy, bouncy and playful tiger cub Shere Khan that BCR (Wildlife on Easy Street) just purchased in 1995. In Carole's own words on this VIDEO, she says that he was "bottle raised in a loving and nurturing home" and that he "does bite hard", which is what any healthy cub with strong healthy teeth does. Compare it to what is reported on Big Cat Rescue website
<snip>He never got the vitamins and exercise he needed as a growing cub, so his back legs were badly underdeveloped. He was very sick for a long time and suffered major problems from calcium deficiency. X-rays showed that his baby canine teeth were rotting in their sockets from his malnourishment and they had to be excised because they had rotted through his face.<snip>
Well, since the video clearly shows healthy tiger cub as purchased, the breeder shouldn't be blamed. Who then caused Shere Khan's health problems later on as he was growing up? Or, are the malnourishment and rotting teeth claims regarding Shere Khan's condition even true?
The truth about pet Snow Leopards 'Wildlife on Easy Street" purchased as reported by Big Cat Rescue in their Cat Tales March 1998 (page2) newsletter- click on the B&W picture on the left As reported by Big Cat Rescue in their videos, calling her pet Snow Leopards 'surplus to the Species Survival Plan', click HERE
The truth about 'Wildlife on Easy Street' Bengal cats (domestic and wild Asian Leopard Cat hybrids). In their September 2000 Cat Tales newsletter, page 2, Carole admits that: "All of the Bengal cats have since been altered and turned loose to patrol the grounds on Easy Street" - click on the B&W picture on the left However, Carole Baskin claims on her website regarding tiny Bengal cats:
<snip>...They bite. Even in play, even if they love you, they
bite and I have scars all over my hands to prove that
their love nips will leave you bleeding. They
want to eat your other pets and they don’t care if
it’s a German shepherd, they are going to be constantly
looking for a way to take the dog down. That is why
many of them can’t run free on Easy Street. They pick
fights with 500 pound tigers. I have even received
reports from Florida's Game and Fish Commission of them
stalking little old ladies and I have been called in
to trap and remove them. ...<snip>
So the question remains, is Baskin fear mongering and attempting to create paranoia regarding small harmless sweet exotic cat hybrids, or, if she is right, did she release an army of attack patrol guard Bengal cats in 2000 that are now terrorizing little old ladies and fighting 500 pounds tigers???
www.REXANO.org
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