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NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by tigers9 on January 24, 2008
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<snip>
According to prosecutors, Bartolini in 2005 began placing advertisements on venomousreptiles.org, a Web site for reptile enthusiasts. <snip>
In second article below
Z
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http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/news/2008/jan/23/snakes-online/
Snakes online
By Sun Staff • January 23, 2008 • 5:36 PM
Apparently there’s something wrong with selling venomous reptiles from the comfort of your home.
Las Vegas resident Cody Bartolini, 21, who went by the name “mojavereptiles” when advertising his snakes for sale on Internet Web sites, recently pleaded guilty to three misdemeanor counts of attempted unlawful sale of wildlife.
Bartolini made the mistake of attempting to sell illegally possessed snakes across state lines.
According to the U.S. Attorney’s plea memorandum, Bartolini was living with 48 snakes of various species, including Tanzanian black mambas, green mambas, king cobras, forest cobras, tiapans, banded Egyptian cobras, Gaboon vipers, West African bush vipers, puff adders, boomslangs, as well as a caiman, Gila monster, and an alligator snapping turtle. The collection was worth almost $11,000.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/14177632.html
Jan. 24, 2008
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
Man pleads guilty in Web snake case sales case
REVIEW-JOURNAL
A Las Vegas man who possessed poisonous snakes at his home pleaded guilty Wednesday to trying to sell the snakes over the Internet, according to the U.S. attorney's office.
Cody Brett Bartolini, 21, pleaded guilty to three misdemeanor counts of attempted unlawful sale of wildlife. He is to be sentenced April 22.
Officials said Bartolini violated federal wildlife trade laws. Selling non-indiginous animals across state lines also violates state law.
U.S. Attorney for Nevada Gregory Brower said the plea is important because the public needs to be aware that buying exotic animals over the Internet can be dangerous and, in some instances, animals are housed in poor conditions.
According to prosecutors, Bartolini in 2005 began placing advertisements on venomousreptiles.org, a Web site for reptile enthusiasts. From his home, Bartolini offered to trade and sell the snakes. They included green mambas, forest cobras, blacksnake spitting cobras and Great Basin rattlesnakes.
Fish and Wildlife agents searched Bartolini's home on March 9, 2007, and seized 48 snakes. Their value was placed at almost $11,000
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by Phobos on January 25, 2008
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Well I was wondering how long Cody would remain off the Laws radar screen.
I met Cody at the 2006 IHS meeting where he was trying to buy any venomous snake he could. Several well known Zoo professionals tried to convince him he was headed for legal trouble or death. He would not listen of course because "he knew is all"
The fact that this site was mentioned in those articles is reason to re-think just allow anyone to come and post ad's as they wish. In my opinion SHHS should restrict it to an "approved list" of people/ogranizations who have made a full and verifyable disclosure to SHHS. Sort of actually inforce rule #4 CTOS. This would not only limit any issues that may rise out of illegal sales, but keep scammmers at bay too.
Al Coritz
SHHS Classified Ad manager
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by MoccasinMan on January 25, 2008
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I was thinking the same thing. As usual, I completely agree with Al's assessment. I think everyone that is going to post on the classifieds should be approved; much as we do with the posting of articles.
Andrew Wyatt
SHHS Moderator
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by tj on January 25, 2008
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"Well I was wondering how long Cody would remain off the Laws radar screen"
I was wondering the same thing. He hasn't posted in quite some time, but it just goes to show you they will catch up to you.
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by earthguy on January 25, 2008
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Al and Andrew,
You are moderators, and the work would mostly fall on your shoulders. If you think that should be the case, then why isn't it?
I know this idea has been batted around, and the logistics would be a booger, but why don't we become an actual society? You know; face to face meetings from time to time, a news letter (or, dare I say it, a Journal), membership dues, etc. I think that we could remain a thriving on-line community AND have a pretty good regional turnout.
Anyway, just a thought...
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by Cro on January 25, 2008
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It will be difficult to restrict the Classifieds to an "approved list" of people/ogranizations who have made a full and verifyable disclosure to SHHS.
Just what is a "full and verifyable disclosure" ? Does it mean fully filling in their profile ?
While that would work well for established reptile businesses, who can provide "full and verifyable info," and have business websites and such, it would be detremental to the site members who place an Classified Ad only once or twice a year. If I want to post a wanted ad for African Pygmy Mice, or wanted to sell a couple of new born Cottonmouths, should I really have to provide "full and verifyable" proof that I am capable of selling Cottonmouths or raising mice ? Who is going to decide this ? Who has the time to scan the hundreds of ads on the site each month ? I know I do not have the time to judge each and every ad here.
Perhaps it would be better to not let folks post an ad unless they had filled out their profile with at least a name and actual EMail address, and require approval by a site manager before the ad is listed ? That way we could stop the scammers from Camaroon and Ivory Coast before their ads were even posted, and the site manager could shoot out an EMail to folks who wanted to post ads that were questionable ? Of course, that would require someone with the time to do that. But some folks would still slip through. There will always be those folks who can "proove" themselves online to be legitimate reptile dealers / buyers, who are in fact scammers or dishonest.
The "Free Classifieds" are one of the things that draws folks to this site. There will always be folks who use them the wrong way, like this Cody fellow. Should we inconvenience hundreds of folks just to weed out the few crooks, and con-artists who use the ads for the wrong purpose ?
Or perhaps we should just do away with the free Classifieds all together, and let folks go to kingsnake to post ads ?
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by yoyoing on January 25, 2008
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This becomes a complex issue of whether freedom should be sacrificed for security. This is a shame that a free classified section can be abused. I see regular warnings when something suspicious pops up, and maybe this should be good enough. Making an official attempt at screening gives an impression that everything that does appear is endorsed.
Maybe the classified section should be looked at like a flyer stuck on a lamp post. Instead of the viewer assuming that someone else is verifying the veracity, they should assume this responsibility themselves (as a buyer or seller).
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by tigers9 on January 25, 2008
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Cro wrote:<< Just what is a "full and verifyable disclosure" ? Does it mean fully filling in their profile ?>>
I assume it is little more than profile, seems like the NV guy was well known to many here, even in person. I guess he was known well enough that some were ‘worried’ about him, I guess that would make him NOT approved to post in ads section then, should such approval process be put in place, that is how I am understanding this.
Maybe just put a disclaimer at the top of the ad page: The site owners and administrators are not responsible for the content of the classifieds, or something along these lines.
Z
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by Cro on January 25, 2008
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Zuzana makes a very good point about a disclosure on the site warning folks to be carefull, and that just because someone advertises here, that they should not be considered legitimate.
I have known reptile dealers who were great and honest for many years, then when they got into a financial bind, or had family problems like divorse, changed in how they presented what they were selling. Suddenly, the honesty went out of the window, and they went into survival mode and did not care of their past reputation.
While screening folks who advertise is a noble idea, I just do not see it working well in a real world situation. Allowing folks who have had problems with them to post a warning does serve a purpose.
I do think we should insist that folks fill out a profile, and have a legitimate EMail address. That way if they turn out to be scammers, we can at least ban them from the site, at least for that EMail identification.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: NV article mentions this site , mohavereptiles
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by jtcbx on March 4, 2008
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I don't keep venomous, myself, so I don't know, but what was it exactly that was criminal (not unethical) about his actions?
What I mean is, is it the state that he lives in, the city, the state or city that his customers lived in? The way the article reads makes it sound like it is a federal offense, not city or state, to ship non-indigenous animals across state lines. If that is the case, I guess any of us that "deal" are guilty. Very few "herpers" work with species, regardless of whether or not they are venomous, that are indigenous to their own state. If anything, I thought it was the other way around. Would somebody help me lace up my brains on this matter?
Thanks,
- Jason
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