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My letter to python hysteria author
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by tigers9 on February 23, 2008
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Just sent to Rodda roddag@usgs.gov, and fwd to other mentioned in press release:
reedr@usgs.gov
skip_snow@nps.gov
Dear Mr. Rodda
I read your report on pythons
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1875
and was not surprised that in the next few days media run with this hysterical claim as if it was just a review of another ‘Snakes on a plane’ movie.
However, your report is being abused and can cause perfectly good pet snakes to be banned for no good reason, other than knee jerk reaction to bad reporting and misuse of your paper/map.
I realize you wrote in your report that it ‘COULD’ happen, but crazy media translates it as ‘IT WILL HAPPEN” and totally ignore the time frame of almost 100 years, when people will have more to worry about than snakes if climate really goes hot.
Maybe hunger will be a major issue and they will be happy to have these snakes as a food source?
What about the vegetation, prey animals, etc…too many unknowns…
In your paper you also refer to ‘other giant constrictor snakes ‘.
How will you prevent Boa constrictors from Mexico to migrate to USA if out government can’t even prevent humans to come here as illegals?
Serioulsy, I think you need to do another press release telling the crazy hyper media that this map is extremely premature and is just your estimate with many unknowns and tell them to SHUT UP please.
Sincerely
Zuzana Kukol
www/rexano.org
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by stopgetinpopped on February 24, 2008
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This has to be the least thought out response I have ever seen.
Your words and actions seem to be identical to those of Animal Rights Activists, just on the other side of the fence. Animal Ownership rights activist...just as bad in my opinion.
There are ways to go about this and knee-jerk reactions like many of yours lately are not it..
Just my two cents.
T-
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by tigers9 on February 24, 2008
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Thanks for you honesty, and you are right, I am for animal owners rights, because that is property rights and that is US Constitution.
We even have a poster in REXANO gallery that says just that, Chimp dressed in camouflage clothing with toy gun that says: "I fight for Animal Owners' Rights"
http://www.rexano.org/Posters_JustSayNO/JSN_Gallery.htm
(upper right corner, 3 sizes)
Anyway;
Here is Gordon’s reply to a concerned reptile owner as posted on Main Forum of AZ reptiles under ‘projected burm habitat maps’, where he freely admits he supports ban on snakes, that is biased, and his reply clearly shows how little scientific info they really do have.
http://www.azreptiles.com/
from Gordon Rodda:
Jerry,
Thanks for contacting me. I appreciate the opportunity to flesh out the statements that have appeared in the media (some of which are actually correct!). I've attached a copy of the paper on which the media coverage is based. I hope you will see that a rational process was used to derive the climate envelope that was then mapped onto the US. Keep in mind that Python molurus occurs in extremely arid areas of Pakistan (both the Lower Indus Valley and Upper Indus Valley, but not the middle Indus!) Keep in mind also that we matched climate (long term average precipitation and long term average temperature) throughout the year. Climate has an influence on almost all aspects of the environment, and therefore is a good proxy for prey availability, habitat, and so forth, but assuredly not an idea (ideal?) proxy for any of those. We recognize that there are many factors that influence the distribution of a species, and if we had the data, we would consider them all. In the absence of the relevant data, one makes due (sic) with what is available, keeping in mind its limitations (generally not reported in the media).
There are many python breeders who have contacted me in great alarm, for fear that the Fish and Wildlife Service's call for information on invasive python risks is a prelude to banning the trade. The trade is well understood to be a source of invasive species, and this is a great concern to all of us, and there are those outside of government who welcome an opportunity to shut down the trade. However, I do not believe that the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is among them. Indeed, I don't believe the FWS has an agenda in this case (they are merely vetting a petition that was given to them). The FWS employee who was handling these matters has retired, and therefore the new person who will end up handling this matter (as far as I know, the new person has not been named) is coming to it with an open mind. I encourage herpetoculturalists to likewise keep an open mind. Recognize that there is a problem with released pets, and propose solutions to that problem that are in keeping with their concerns. I believe (though I certainly do not speak for them) that the FWS would even consider constructive suggestions as to how the process of regulating potential invaders could be improved. It is a complex and difficult problem, with no obvious solution. Think creatively! This is an opportunity to greatly influence the ways in which the problem of invasive reptiles are addressed.
Please feel free also to contact me further. I encourage you to read the attached manuscript (it is in Press in the scientific journal Biological Invasions), and share it with colleagues. I'll be happy to answer questions to the best of my ability. There are some pretty big unknowns out there; for example, we have very little accurate information on the range of P. molurus in Pakistan or west central China. If you know of documented but unpublished facts that would help resolve any of the uncertainties, those would be especially welcome.
Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to expand on the very limited coverage possible through the mass media.
Cheers, Gordon
Gordon Rodda
USGS Fort Collins Science Center
2150 Centre Ave., Bldg. C
Fort Collins CO 80526
(970) 226-9471
(970) 226-9230 (FAX)
Gordon_Rodda@usgs.gov
NOTE: Dr. Rodda sent me the paper he mentioned, not as an attachment but as part of the text. I will try to add it soon.
__________________
Sergeant-at-Arms
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by richardduckworth on February 24, 2008
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sure, a professional in the field doesn't have to fight fire with fire because they have NOTHING TO LOSE.
for an amateur, who is losing rights left and right, fighting fire with anything but fire simply IS NOT WORKING.
not to mention, professionals will inherit the respect AND CUSTOMERS that was once part of the private sector when all these laws banning every reptile is passed. they'll still have their animals and more folks wanting to see them.
also, what pro likes the fact that an amateur without credentials has the same wealth of knowledge, OR MORE, than they do? what pro likes being one-upped by a petty little amateur?
so what i'm saying is, what do pros have to lose? what drives pros to fight any of this legislation.
sure some have and will continue to do so, but if they have to risk their profession, would they?
i've noticed this issue to be a HUGE turning point. pros are kinda being honest with their opinions and so far, it kinda stinks.
maybe all the pros'agendas are different from the little peoples'?
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by stopgetinpopped on February 24, 2008
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Richard,
If most of what you just said is in direct relation to me, just say so.
It honestly sounds like you have a case of big peepee little peepee syndrome going on?
I have absolutely no problem with someone knowing more than I do. Professional or amateur... I think it's great.
If everyone would stop thinking that the Government is TAKING their rights away and start beleiving that the general reptile keeping public is in fact GIVING their rights away...you might get somewhere.
The vast majority of people who own reptiles and animals in general, simply shouldn't.
Creating all this fire with fire attitude is actually causing more harm than anything. What you/we need to be doing is something that I said 5 years ago. Police our own community. No one does that even though it's really easy to do. Most would rather piss and moan and refuse to identify the real problem.
T-
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by tigers9 on February 24, 2008
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This is simply your opinion, NOTHING more, until you prove with facts that it is ineedd a researched fact that most people shoudln't have any animals, seems liek stuff I read on AR sites though...
In any case, this is the kind of elitist hypocritical (i can, you idiot shouldn’t) statement that divides exotic community.
Nobody is born an expert with experience, and until you try it you don’t know how good or bad you will be.
As for small peeppee, I have none, thanks god, I am a woman and pretty satisfied with my gender.
So are you saying men who are on this forum and who have many big snakes are overcompensatingn for something? How many do you have?
Z
stopgetinpopped wrote:
<<It honestly sounds like you have a case of big peepee little peepee syndrome going on? <snip>
<,The vast majority of people who own reptiles and animals in general, simply shouldn't. >>
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by Buzztail1 on February 24, 2008
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You're right, Richard, a professional in the field doesn't have his livelihood to lose if pythons and boas are banned.
And when we were warned that this was coming 10 years or so ago - who did what?
Did anyone stop selling cute little Burmese Python babies that "will only grow as large as their cage" to anyone who walked up with the money to buy them?
No they did not.
Did herp societies band together and root out the unscrupulous sellers and post warnings about them?
Again, for the most part, no.
So what happened?
Florida, after much deliberation, passed last year's "Big 5" law. And people have moaned and complained since the deliberations started. And the Burmese Python population of South Florida continues to flourish!
And the Animal Rights Activists are charging full bore on all fronts to get Boas, Pythons and Anacondas banned from the pet trade. And everybody's screaming "not fair" "my rights" yada yada.
Well, let me tell you, I don't want to lose my rights either. I also don't want non-indigenous animals OF ANY KIND taking over habitat anywhere in this country.
If you have a useful suggestion on how to prevent that, then make it to USFW. They are asking for input. Finger-pointing, name-calling, comparisons to guns/cars/bath tubs/lightning/pit bulls/etc will not help the cause. I, personally, thought that Florida's requirement to have all specimens of "the big 5" avid chipped was reasonable. Then when they find a released snake, they can track it to the owner and charge them with "Felony Habitat Endangerment" or whatever the actual name of the citation would be. Absolutely!! Hold the individual accountable!
Sadly, that is no longer the American way.
We have to hold the entire group accountable for the actions of the few.
Whining about "my rights" and "professionals are out to get us" etc on this or any other forum is not going to change anything.
Put together a well reasoned out letter on why they shouldn't be banned and how we can prevent what is currently happening in South Florida on a national basis, put your real name on it, stand behind it and send it in.
If you don't stand up and put your reputation out there for something you believe in, then don't whine when it is gone.
Just representing my own personal opinion, not necessarily that of the SHHS, or of any other organization that may or may not be associated with my name either personally or professionally.
Karl H. Betz
Buzztail1@hotmail.com
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RE: My letter to python hysteria author
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by tigers9 on February 24, 2008
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FL just created a new law where these animals have to be microchipped, registered, plus they have pet amnesty days. How about wait and see if FL on a state level can take care of the issue with the new law before overeacting by a total constrictor ban ?
Why try to fix a small scratch on finger with chemotherapy and radiation and/or total limb amputation?
Z
==
stopgetinpopped wrote <<Police our own community. No one does that even though it's really easy to do. Most would rather piss and moan and refuse to identify the real problem>>
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RE: Enough nonsense!!!
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by Buzztail1 on February 24, 2008
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I would really hate to close a promising thread because we can't, as a group, keep from personal attacks, name calling, and failing to read the responses to see to whom they addressed!
Conduct yourselves like adults who are, in fact, facing one another over a table of debate.
Dissenting opinions are welcome.
Childish behavior is not!
Knock it off!
Karl H. Betz
This time speaking for the SHHS website team!
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Sorry Karl
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by stopgetinpopped on February 24, 2008
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Wow Z, you are very sensitive aren't you?
Well I'll indulge for a bit.
Look at this website and tell me that you are any different?
http://www.upc-online.org/
Any 'activist' group of any kind is only damaging to the very cause that they hold dear.
Anytime you can not even fathom the argument of the other side you become harmful to your own cause.
The USFWS is having an inquiry. Which translates in this topic to "gathering information to make a wise decision"
Maybe in this case you should let the professionals discuss things with USFWS. There is no way I want you to represent the responsible ownership of Large snakes.
As for proof that the majority of people shouldn't own animals...just look around you...it's everywhere. 60% of the 90 million cats in the U.S. are allowed access to the outdoors causing hundreds of millions of native songbirds to die annually.
That right there is what is called irresponsible pet ownership. Which explains my statement above. Re-read it if nescessary.
And seeing as we are apparently talking about it ...Trust me, nothing this small ever hurt anyone. So yes, I overcompensate by having large Pythons, Anacondas and other Boas. I'm not ashamed.
Seeing as the reptile community chose not to police themselves than it is quite possible that someone else will.
Also, adding them to the injurious wildlife doesn't mean Ban...it means regulation. Yes, it is difficult to get an IW permit but not impossible. Just means that you do have to take your standards to a professional level is all. Nothing wrong with that. If nothing else it would be good for the animals... And thats what its all about to me.
T-
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