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RE: Sorry Karl-
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by tigers9 on February 25, 2008
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Stopgetinpopped, I think you need to look closer around you what is going on in exotic animal legislation. When you look at proposed and or passed exotic animal legislation from 10 years ago, only pet owners were banned/affected.
Well, it did affect the professionals in a way, as their legal customer base shrunk with the bans.
Nowadays, legislation is against everybody except AZA zoos and scamstuaries, and lately AR go after AZA too.
Just look at the current proposed state legislations, lets use North Carolina as an example, since Andrew is on this forum as well. NC Professionals would be banned too, yes, they can keep their current stock, aka grandfathering, but they can not breed, buy or replace. Where is the conservation in this if you are regulating to extinction, where is the free business enterprise when these bans are shutting down respectable legal businesses? U need to understand, grandfathering curent stock only is in efefct a ban.As that is grandfathering current aniamls only, not your business activity as a whole.
Current trends go after all of us, pet or pro, and I have been trying to explain this but some just refuse to listen. And if you truly believe animals on injurious list permit will be easy to get because you see yourself as professional, once again, you are fooling yourself, even AZA have to go thru hoops to get these animals.
Z
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RE: Sorry Karl-
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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I agree you have to go through hoops to get an injurious wildlife permit. Why is that bad?
I also never said stuff like this wouldn't effect me?
T-
Still confuses me...
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RE: Sorry Karl-
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by richardduckworth on February 25, 2008
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terry, not everyone lives near a breeder and some folks have to move to other states for their job, because they need to be closer to a cancer treatment facility, whatever.
if this law is passed, people won't be able to take their snakes with them, right?
how will this address the issue of snakes taking over the USA due to IRRESPONSIBLE people who don't care ONE IOTA about their snakes, dumping them?
this WHOLE thing is NOT about what they're saying it's about. it's the first step to total banishment. it's happened before.
florida could have and should have addressed this years ago. they were recommending that folks "leave the wild burmese alone" in certain ads from the 90's and even as recently as 2002, but they didn't always give a contact number and once, the number that was on the poster was an invalid number. FLORIDA screwed this up. FLORIDA could have dealt with this AND FORSEEN the problem a long time ago. people seem to give the F&G guys a free pass because of their other permit systems, but the lower third of the state is in a tropical zone, perfectly suitable to boas and pythons, which are the most popular groups of pet snakes. in the 70's, before snake dumping was a real issue, there were millions of feral cats and tens of thousands of wild dogs roaming the cities and countrysides of the USA. that's what people do now, and have always done. they get tired of something and can't make a few bucks on it, so they dump it, out of sight/out of mind.
this is meant to slow the market down a bit, or hurt it in some way as far as how many snakes are here or there. not only do some states have basically zero breeders, but more would go out of business. more would be forced to sell to people who shouldn't keep snakes either. ANY dollar from anyone would be accepted. those folks are the ones dumping the animals.
and again, this whole range map is only viable IF you assume the temps are going to rise enough to make it possible and IF the snakes are able to brumate on command and IF we don't go after pet stores who misinform people, etc.
a lot of ifs.
why not force easily obtainable permits for EVERY PET/ANIMAL that anyone wants to keep? it would generate revenue, it wouldn't be something that had to be monitored closely because a simple computer program could keep up with who had what. as for breeding and dying, a corpse would account for a dead snake or BOOM, permit suspension. asking folks to report when babies are born would work for the most part and for those who don't, what are they gonna do with them? sell them? where did those extra babies come from, your permit says you have 1.1 ball pythons. BOOM, permit suspension.
the feds could come up with a simple system in weeks. when mistakes are made, just like with everything else, then there will be penalties. it would be as much control as a hobby could expect. it would be safer than ever. it would allow states to profit, even if only a bit.
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RE: Sorry Karl-
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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Richard,
Now THATS what I'm talking about!
How many times have I said that I was not in any way supporting this IW addition? Several in these two threads alone. So please don't portray me as I am.
I don't think you are, I think you are just talking outloud etc.
This inquiry really is just that, an inquiry at this time. Everything you just wrote is what they want to hear about!
Do they fit the status of IW.. quite possibly. However are there other options available to them? Absolutely!
Thinking that it is a precursor to a ban is not really the way to go either. It has happened before, but largely to an inadequate response from those of us. If we don't explain to them all of the variables, what information are they going to go on? Animal rights activists...damn straight!
So for them to give us the oppurtunity to provide REAL data is fantastic! If all we throw at them is "this is my Right" they aren't gonna buy it.
Trust me, there are some major hitters working on providing them with REAL data. I honestly don't think this will ever make it to a lawmaking decision.
What we have to avoid doing is throwing rediculous statements at them. That is exactly the reason I chimed in, which I don't normally do...is Rexano is throwing garbage their way, picking fights etc. Doing terrible harm to the process.
Don't get me wrong, there are instances that animals need to be placed on IW status. I don't think for a second this is one of them.
Boas and Pythons are a Multi-Million dollar push to the economy. For that reason alone they won't go too far with it.
T-
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RE: Sorry Karl-
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by stopgetinpopped on February 25, 2008
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Oh and to answer your original question about what I would stand to lose?
I also personally produce Boas commercially.. so trust me I would lose something..
T-
But I do understand and am able to view all sides of the debate. Ours, USFWS and the general public.
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