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RE: toxicity
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by Cro on April 9, 2008
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Ok, enough of this thread.
I am tired of a 24 year old, and a 25 year old, arguing with a 16 year old.
The ongoing arguing makes me think that none of you should be keeping venomous snakes.
I will delete your posts if this continues.
Best Regards
JohnZ
SHHS Site Administrator
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RE: toxicity
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by Aries54 on April 9, 2008
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Hey, the point of this is, it's people like this that are killing this hobby. This kid wants to argue his point. And you and I both know he's wrong. I'll argue with this kid until I'm blue in the face if it would help our situation out. As the head of this site, YOU SHOULD understand that. Go ahead and delete this if you want, but it's just going to make this kid think that he's right. Oh, and by the way,.....16 years old is still a kid. I'm 26, are you saying that I'm not a grown adult? Yea, I'm not senior citizen, but uhm,....let's get real here.
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RE: toxicity
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by Cro on April 9, 2008
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Mark, there are a lot of different people killing the venomous reptile hobby. They come in all ages and all experience levels. I had given it 10 years of survival, but now I am thinking 5 years before there are no more reptile shows, and no more venomous keepers outside of zoos and scientific institutions. The upcoming USFWS attempted bans of burmese pythons is a great example of how the animals rights folks have done an end run around the state laws, and are pushing for a National exotic animals law.
However, this forum is called "Ask the Experts" and it is a place where folks can ask questions about venomous snakes, and their husbandry, and their identification, and take advantage of the knowledge base of the thousands of folks we have worldwide.
It is not a place for you to to continue arguments with someone that you think is too young to be keeping venomous snakes. That can be done in EMail, or you can set up your own forum on the web. You have stated your opinion several times now, however, this has become a pissing contest, and I will not let it keep going, as it goes against the purpose of this forum.
I agree that if a young person gets bitten by a venomous snake, that that will hurt the hobby. However, so will an older person getting bitten. Look at all the negative press that Dr. Hunter got a month or two ago from his EDB bite. Many news papers were screaming about how he was allowed to keep venomous snakes in a neighborhood.
An as Al stated, folks like Rabbit Boy with his mambas last year were not good for the hobby also. Not to mention professional dealers who have allowed cobras to get loose among the public at Hamburg, or dealers who do not even use basic safety procedures at shows like securing the deli cups with red tape, and keeping those deli cups out of reach of kids. And other dealers who have brought multiple venomous snakes to shows in screen topped aquariums. A well known German venomous show was just shut down because of some vendors not following the rules.
I am sure that you have some concern for a young keeper who you think is doing something dangerous and at too young an age. And you are entitled to think that, and you have stated that.
There have always been young reptile keepers with a early passion for venomous snake keeping. In our news section there is an article about a 15 year old in South Africa who keeps 150 snakes and has been bitten 3 times now. Dean Ripa was keeping a King Cobra at age 15. Bill Hasst was catching Timber Rattlesnakes at age 15. I was keeping Copperheads at age 12, and Forest Cobras, Gaboon Vipers, and Sea Snakes at age 17. Looking back on that, should I have been keeping those snakes at that age, heck no ! However, you could not have convinced me otherwise then. Some folks have a passion for venomous reptiles at a early age. Many of these folks become future Zoo Curators, keepers, and scientists. You just have to hope they are safe keepers at that early age, and do not get bitten.
I have known 13 and 14 year olds who were responsible enough at that age to keep venomous snakes.
And I have known many older folks who have no business keeping venomous snakes ever.
The three of you have all stated your ideas over and over now. This forum will now get back to being an educational forum.
Best Regards JohnZ
SHHS Site Administrator
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RE: toxicity
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by soberwolf on April 10, 2008
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GROW UP guys jeeez. I remember hearin about a guy in Austrailia that started in the biz when he was very young, Turned out Steve Irwin did more for animal recognition and conservation than any of the clowns bickering in here. I dont care how old you are when ya pick at each other you act about 5. Hopefully Arin wont get tagged. Hopefully any of you aruing with him wont get tagged either. Quit throwing the blame around for bad press. There are probabley a fair share of people in here that shouldnt keep a poodle much less a venomous reptile!!! So if Arin wants to enjoy this hobby, supoport and educate him. If ya want to burn a witch go after clowns like crotchdaddy who miss inform the public. He's the dangerous one. The way I see it; " the best way to beat bad press is to use good press". Go out and educate, And for cryin out loud "act your age" Shelby
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RE: toxicity
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by Chance on April 11, 2008
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I'm sorry. I guess I didn't realize we were required to support everyone who comes to this site wanting to keep venomous reptiles. I'll keep that in mind next time.
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RE: toxicity
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by Cro on April 11, 2008
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Chance, no one is "required to support everyone who comes to this site wanting to keep venomous reptiles." That does not mean that you can turn this forum into a place to attack someone, though.
What started out as a question about the LD 50 of a certain snake in Ask the Experts became a bashing contest against one person, and that persons parents. It was dissapointing to see that from older folks in their mid 20's. And it went against the purpose of the Ask the Experts Forum, which is EDUCATION. A place where folks can ask questions about venomous snakes. As a science teacher, you should know the value of that.
The more that reptile keepers stick together, the better the chances of venomous reptile keeping surviving. If a bunch of you want to attack each other, do it in EMail, or on a different forum.
Best Regards JohnZ
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RE: toxicity
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by hapkidocrochunter on April 11, 2008
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Yeah, this was taken way to far. He is young, but like John said, many people have started out young in this hobby. bashing him and his parents isn't the way to go. If he's been keeping these animals for this long, maybe his parents see that he is able to do it responsibly, and support his interest. Hell, I wish my parents would have let me keep hots at his age, and if they did, Id prob. have them too.
Everyone voiced their opinion, so whats the point of arguing with a kid? Let it go.
If the keeper was 15, or 55, a bite from a venomous snake that is your pet, is bad press regardless.
matt
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RE: toxicity
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by Chance on April 11, 2008
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I never attacked his parents and only called him out as a troll when he began posting simply to try to rile up the members here. The picture he has posted of himself illustrating extremely poor handling techniques is where my gripe is. He claims experience keeping a range of dangerous animals, yet posts a picture of himself handling a rattler in a manner which could extremely easily result in an envenomation. When called on it, he goes on the offensive. Sure there have been people on this thread who've gone a bit overboard, but I hardly consider many of the comments to be anything less than educational in their own right. Sometimes a cold splash of water is what it takes to wake up someone.
And yes I am a teacher and fully well know the value of education. I educate my students at least on a weekly basis on the ecological value of snakes. However, if one of my students were to come to me asking questions indicating to me that he/she wanted to keep venomous snakes, I would strongly discourage it if I knew that person didn't have prior experience. In fact, my students know I keep venomous and have, on more than one occasion, asked me how they could get some of the animals I have. Every single time I've simply responded by saying they weren't ready for an animal like that, and moved on. None of them have been very serious about wanting to take up such a hobby - and if they were I'd be more than happy to try to mentor them. However, if one of them came into my classroom showing me a picture of himself handling a venomous snake in the manner this person has, then asked about a vastly more dangerous species, my response would be no lighter than it was here. I wouldn't call his parents idiots or anything and I don't think it was a good idea for people to do it here, but I wouldn't play nicely and simply hope that he wouldn't go off and get himself into trouble.
See, education is at least a two-fold process. You educate a person for the person's benefit. However, you also educate a person for society's benefit. In this case, society more relates to our hobby than society in general. We, as a collective, don't need any more pressure, so we should discourage irresponsible keeping any time we can. It won't fix things, but it may help.
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RE: toxicity
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by Chance on April 11, 2008
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By the way, this was the comment to which I was referring earlier:
"So if Arin wants to enjoy this hobby, supoport and educate him."
I'd be more than glad to educate him. Supporting him is pushing it.
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RE: toxicity
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by Cro on April 11, 2008
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Chance, I agree that you have not gone overboard with your comments, and it is good that you have pointed out what could be considered dangerous handling of a rattlesnake to Arin.
Hopefully Arin will take into consideration what could happen if that rattlesnake dropped from the hook and swung down from his hand.
Best Regards JohnZ
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