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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by Peter on August 9, 2008
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John;
Wern't you at AZP when the Cobra made its break from the trash can with the end result of about 10000 tubes of silastic being applied to every crevice in the buillding...:-)
I really dont like the idea of ever having direct access from cage area to public area. There really needs to be a secondary containment area of some sort.
Peter
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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by Cro on August 10, 2008
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Peter,
Good to hear from you again. Hope things are going well for you at the Kentucky Reptile Zoo.
Shoot me an EMail sometime and let me know what you have been up to.
Yes, I was working at the Atlanta Zoo when a certain Assistant Curator left a cobra in a metal trash can to soak overnight.
There was a rule in place that snakes were not supposed to be left in the cans overnight, and were to be labled when animals were in them during the day. The keepers were good about following that rule.
The individul involved had a habit of breaking rules and doing what ever he pleased. That, and other issues lead to his eventually being fired from the AZP job, and future jobs that he had in other parts of the country, as you know.
The Cobra was behind the scenes in the locked Center Section, however, it eventually made its way to the South-East Section, again behind doors that were locked from the public part of the building.
Overall, the Atlanta Zoo had the snakes isolated from the public access areas quite well. However, as you well know, the cielings inside of the sections were another matter. They had a maze of heat and electrical pipes that ran through the cieling, and from section to section. Every now and then, we would see a shed skin up on the pipes, from one of several tree boas that had excaped years ago, and probably still live up there today. That cieling refuge also had a breeding population of giant Tokay Geckos, that had excaped many years ago.
The areas behind the scenes of most zoos do have cielings that offer excape routes for snakes, however, those areas are behind locked doors from the public.
I guess some sort of dropped cieling would prevent that, and cause each section to be sealed, however, I have not seen that at a zoo yet. It would be a huge expense, and there are few cielings that would stand up to the heat and humidity.
The main thing though, is that the Cages at the Atlanta Zoo were Excape Proof, unless a keeper actually left a door open. And those cages are accessable only from the back, which is behind a locked door. As far as I am concerned, that is the ONLY way for a reptile exhibit to be set up. As you stated, the public should Never have access to a cage door or lock.
What is interesting about the Cobra incident, is that we closed the Reptile Building to the public for a couple of months while we searched for that snake. The City of Atlanta forced us to re-open the building, even though the Cobra was still un-accounted for, as the Reptile Exhibit was the main reason that folks visited the Atlanta Zoo. A couple of weeks after we re-opened, the cobra turned up on the other side of the building. It would have had to made its way over there through a cieling, or through a drainage pipe.
Working there with that large cobra loose was interesting, as you never knew if he was hiding under one of the stock tanks right next to your feet, LOL !
What was even more spooky though was the times that same Assistant Curator allowed green and jamisons mambas to get loose from the exhibit cage.
The mambas had a fine time racing back and forth on top of the tall exhibit cages in that section. (Thank goodness for Pilstrom Tongs). It is really fortunate that they did not decide to climb up one of the water pipes into the cieling. Again, keeper error and rule breaking. Switch boxes should have been used, just as the cobra should have not been in the garbidge can overnight!
I left the Zoo before the 10,000 tubes of Silastic came into play, LOL. Knowing Howard, I bet a few hundred rolls of Duct Tape and and Bailing Wire also came into play, LOL !
Best Regards John Z
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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by jared on August 10, 2008
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Its your responsibility and the "professional" staffs responsiblilty to keep the public outta harms way when dealing with any wildlife. Again one mistake could be overlooked, but if the public see's the "professional" community cant manage there venomous snakes from escaping to where the public could suffer then it reflects poorly not only on zookeepers but the rest of the community. Inexcusable,
Jared
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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by Peter on August 12, 2008
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Ya...duct tape did figure prominantly as I recall...:-)
Peter
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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by AquaHerp on August 12, 2008
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I know staff at Moody. They are more than competent. The enclosures are secure. My guess is that like any naturalistic exhibit the animal found a place to seclude itself behind some rockwork or tree prop where it went undetected. I have had copperheads behind rock outcrops and eyelash vipers wedged behind cork bark, yet all securely tight within the enclosure proper.
It's a sensationalized news story folks; take it for what it is. When the news reports any other snake mishap everyone is quick to point out every discrepancy and scream from the soapbox how the media exaggerated. Yet when it involves a zoo it's gospel?
Snakes hide, and hide well, it's what they do.
DH
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RE: Missing Snake Shuts Down Galveston Exhibit
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by Peter on August 14, 2008
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Well, according to the story the place it chose to secrete itself the first time it was AWOL was on the top of the exhibit, on the outside. So it must not have been all that secure if these facts are accurate.
Granted I have no first hand knowlodge of the incident or exhibit so I really cannot say if that was an accurate stating of the facts. I do think that when one is designing exhibit furnishings one needs to take into account the ability to find the little beggars in there as well as keep them in there.
I would be sort of skeptical of housing small arboreal vipers and large Bitis in the same enclosure myself, partially for that very reason. If I really wanted to do that I would investigate some sort of "cage within a cage" sort of deal to isolate the arboreal from its cagemates. I am less then enthusiastic about mixing venomous animals under any conditions, especially 2 radically differing species which cant help but multiply your potential issues. I know mixed species exhibits are the flavor of the month these days but I still don't think its a terribly good idea with venomous animals and demands some cafeful consideration prior to doing. I have also seen quite a few zoo exhibits that were secure for the animals they were originally constructed for but conceivably not for others that might be put therein.
I once had several hatchling black rats make a break from a hatching tray which I had failed to secure correctly. I recovered them here and there for a couple days and finally was missing just one whom I just could not find until lo and behold the little rascal appeared sitting on a stump in the Eastern Diamondback exhibit and to this day I have no idea how it could have gotten in there but there it most certainly was. Although the exhibit was "diamondback tight" it obviously wasn't "baby Elaphe" tight.
Peter
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