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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by fizzbob7 on February 4, 2003
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finally someone who is actually a serpent handler...sparky, u kinda answered my question, because i didnt know the exact "why" and "how" its done....thats what i initially wanted to know, but it veered off course slightly(to say the least)...but i was mainly wondering about the reason for handling, and from what i understand was a test of "worthiness", but thanks for clearing it up.....and i didnt mean to offend u or your religion by saying that i thought it was stupid, but i obviously didnt understand exactly why, because no one who had ever actually participated in the practice answered....but is it a ritual like taking communion, a form of symbolism(which is more important to some religions than others) or what...is it done during every service.....i really want to know STILL...but again, sorry if what i wrote in the other posts bothered u, it was basically just arguing for arguing...it does cure boredom sometimes u know :)
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by sparky88 on February 4, 2003
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here is a web page about serpent handling if anyone is interested http://yeltsin.tripod.com/index.html
it may answer alot of questions.
serpent handling is not a ritual or symbolistic of anything.it is the manifestation of god's power thru a man or woman.it is a sign confirming the gospel of Jesus Christ.in Mark 16 Jesus gave a commandment to the disciples to preach the gospel to every creature...
then he gave five signs to accompany those that believed the gospel.the disciples went forth preaching
the word confirming the word with signs following.
they don't take place in every service...only when the spirit of the Lord moves someone to do it.we don't force anyone to do it either.there are some people in the church that have never done it or only did one time in their life(and it wasn't because they died from doing it).
the media has sensationalized it and not shown it to be how it actually is.they show what they want the world to see and that is all.they potray us as fanatics who only care about handling snakes.they leave out the true lives and beliefs of the people.serpent handling is only a part of ourbeliefs.the focus for us is preaching Jesus Christ and him crucified to take away the sins of the world.
being risen on the third day with all power in heaven and in earth,ascending into the heavens....preparing a place for his people,and sending the holy ghost to lead and guide those that are saved that all may have a chance to forever be with him.
i appreciate the apology..but it wasn't necessary.
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by TomT on February 4, 2003
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I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the Gospel. If you read the entire New Testament, with a focus on the first four books, it is a clearer representation of the "Commission" that Jesus gave the remaining 11. The command to go forward to spread the Good News was not prefaced with orders to "pick up serpents" or "drink deadly things" as often quoted in Mark. The intent of those words, as most would agree, is Jesus telling the 11 (not all we "moderns Saints") that the Holy Spirit ("The Comforter") would reside in Them (the 11) and would protect them (the 11) from harm ***Should anything like a serpent bite or drinking something bad occur to them... Paul was bitten and nothing happened to him.... It pains me that one verse is so highly revered *OUT OF CONTEXT* that an entire culture is based on that one verse. I can't find ANY other reference to this practice ANYWHERE else in the entire Bible. This is unique in that there is none other reference to the practise, yet people place emphasis on the "handling of serpents" as part of their worship service, no matter how infrequently or frequently it is performed.... There is even some skepticism as to whether the last few chapters of Mark were actually written by Mark, and as to whether they should have been included in the Bible... obviously most scholars conclude they belong, but I don't place much value on one unsupported verse when there are several that indicate that this serpent handling is nothing more than a passing reference in The Commissioning of the Eleven to go out and spread The Word.... There are MANY references to the Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, Comforter.... The One who will come after me and dwell in you forever, and so on, but one and only one (fleeting) reference ot picking up serpents (and it doesn't say that we *should* do that, BTW) and speaking in tongues is another one of the things that is NOT what we are supposed to do in my opinion.... SPeaking in tongues means that the 11 would be able to go into FOREIGN lands and speak and everyone would be able to UNDERSTAND them..... I've heard a lot of gibberish being passed off as speaking in tongues, but if it were REALLY the manifestation of the Holy Spirit speaking through an Earthly body, everyone present would UNDERSTAND the words (gibberish) being spewed forth, not be puzzled by the meaning and have to have someone else interpret the nonsense for them........... So, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on the topic of handling snakes, speaking in tongues and a few other assorted irregularities in the different ways Christians "practice" what they believe.
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by sparky88 on February 4, 2003
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i agree that we will definitely disagree on these topics,but that is fine...you must work out your own salvation and i must work out mine.
i must make a response to the previous post:
first of all...our culture is not based around serpent handling.it is only a part of our worship..not the center of our lives.
" The Bible is more than just a book. It is the inspired Word (Literally translated from the Greek "God Breathed") of God. There are no errors in it and the harder men try to prove it to be a lie, the more it bears up under scrutiny.... "
according to this statement you must believe all the bible is true and original.
"As was stated earlier, Mark 16:18 clearly states: "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." "
in the verses before this one(Mark15 and 16)Jesus commissioned the disciples : "go YE into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."now in verse 17 Jesus said "these signs SHALL follow those that BELIEVE."not only the 11..but everyone that believed on their word.
as for the speaking in tongues....if it was for the 11 to go into other countries.....why did Paul write
the 14th chapter of 1st corinthians(especially verse 2)???..paul was not one of the 11.
brownmc@hotmail.com
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by TomT on February 5, 2003
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Without trying to twist each other's words to "prove" something, I'm going to say this about your response for now, and then I'll give you a more thorough response in the morning.
Yes! The entire Bible is true. I said that, and I meant that. The trap you seem to be bent on falling into is taking one verse from Mark, or as in the current "hot topic" of Speaking in tongues, one verse based on Paul's letter to The Corinthians to base your belief upon.
When read as a whole and interpreted on whole the Bible stands up to any and all scrutiny. To take one or two verses out of context and to try to say to me that if I believe the Bible I have to believe ALL of the Bible is a VERY silly stance to take when it is I who have been trying to tell YOU the VERY same thing.
Read all of it and it proves itself.... read selected shorts and you can twist The Word into meaning almost anything you want it to mean.... Satan would use thesame tactic of "selected shorts" out of The Bible to confuse a believer if it would work to his advantage.
Last note for now.... I don't have to "work out," or whatever the term was, my Salvation. Salvation is a gift and it has been given to me, through my Faith.
I never intended to turn this thread into some form of attack, but you seem to be quite upset that I have offered my interpretation of Mark 16 here. I am beginning to think it is beat to let this end here. I'll have an more in depth Theological explanation of the "Tongues" comments for you tomorrow, if you want it....
I would ask you to read the entire Epistle written by Paul and think about what the whole thing says before making up your mind about an individual chapter or verse within a chapter..... There are many cases where what the writer seems to be saying may not be the case when you look at the surface..... Paul had lots of time to write, and he wrote well. His words have meaning, but you have to be very careful not to dwell on one word or phrase, chapter or verse, when seeking truth.....
You can no more base your Faith on one chapter than you can say you know me based on the words I have written here. My words are nothing more than that, but they are not written without great consideration of the impact and weight that they may carry. It is not easy to openly question what someone else believes in, as it challenges you as a person and it may be painful for you. That has not been my intent. Of that much, I can assure you. It is not easy for me to explain my limited understanding of The Bible. I am probably not the right person to make this attempt, but God willing, I will write the correct words when I sit down to compose the answer in depth.
Tom
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by sparky88 on February 5, 2003
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i did not intend for this to become a religious debate.i only wanted to clear up misconceptions about our church and maybe answer a few specific questions.people are entitled to their own beliefs.that is the choice each individual must make for him/herself.i did not intend to make an attack on tom's reply.but just as he openly stated his opinions, i openly stated mine in defense.the manner i chose may be have been inappropriate ..if so i apologize.i do not apologize for what i stand for and how i believe.
if anyone has questions for me to answer about the church.. feel free to post them.if anyone wants to initiate an interpretive discussion ..please email me.as i stated earlier..i don't claim to know much...but i will share what i know.
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by fizzbob7 on February 6, 2003
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i checked out the link, sparky......and i just wanted to say, you seem laid back, and every other serpent handler i have met seems laid back, too.....i only wish the bible thumpers that go door to door(seemingly every night after my lil girl finally gets to sleep) were more like you guys....and something else.....did anyone watch hidden hills the other night...i missed it....:p
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by MSTT on February 16, 2003
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The oldest religious snake handlers are the Hopi Snake Dancers; Christians are very much the new kids on the block here in North America.
I figure anybody has the right to follow their own spiritual beliefs, but if they are abusing or mistreating the animals in any way I sincerely hope they get their just reward for animal cruelty. Are the snakes used in these services properly housed and fed? Do they receive a good standard of veterinary care? Any veterinary care at all?
Somehow I doubt it, since from what I understand these snakes are seen as evil creatures and are probably treated accordingly. I suppose they think their god gives them permission to abuse and mistreat snakes because these animals are "really" messengers of the devil or some such, and "mastery" over them proves their god's power. Innocent animals suffer and die because of these beliefs, which makes them very much not okay in my book.
Personally I hope that when snake abusers finally get what they deserve, they walk into the Afterlife and discover that God is really a rattlesnake. And that they're a fat juicy mouse. :)
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RE: Religious Snake Handlers
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by sparky88 on February 17, 2003
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I can't speak for all serpent handlers and how they care for their snakes,but most of of the ones i know are very intent on caring for them the best way they know how.that is the main reason i frequent this web site ... for what i can learn.
most serpent handlers put alot of emphasis on making sure their snakes are well cared for.of course it is a learning process and we all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.
most serpent handlers do not revere the serpent as evil or satan or anything like that.they are serpents...creatures created by God.in the beginning they walked and after the serpent deceived eve and she and adam eat the forbidden fruit...God cursed the serpent to crawl on his belly and eat the dust of the earth.God also put an enmity between the serpent and man.the man would bruise the serpents haed and the serpent would bruise the man's heel.most people say that snakes are the devil or represent the devil.a snake is a snake...a creature created by the hand of god.
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