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making antivenom
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by jparker1167 on September 7, 2008
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well this kid has been sending me messages on youtube trying to convince me that he knows how to make av and does it at home. he said all you do is inject a horse and take its blood. so if anyone has a good link about what it takes to make av or could just put a few things im ill link him to this page so maybe he will listen.
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RE: making antivenom
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by Cro on September 7, 2008
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Joe, you can send him here.
Perhaps he will listen. Perhaps not.
The basic idea of injecting horses with venom to build up immunity in the horse is correct. However, turning the horse blood into a antivenom is a whole different thing.
Foreign serium proteins act as antigens. This means that the horse blood / serum can be just as deadly as the proteins in the snake venom itself, as it is a foreign object in the body.
Does he have any idea just how complex it is to seperate the fractions of the horse blood to obtain a antivenom ?
Doing something like that is not going to happen in a Mr. Wizzard home chemistry set......
Tens of thousands of dollars worth of lab equipment will be needed, as well as the ability to use that equipment correctly.
I do not want to discourage a kid who wants to work in the sciences. However, if he is really interested in making antivenoms, he needs to get a job at a real antivenom production facility, so that he can learn just how complex the process is.
Best Regards John Z
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RE: making antivenom
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by constrictorfreak on September 7, 2008
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no disrespect at all , i really don't want to touch this one . if you do get the kid on here i would love to help explain it to him . but for now i think i'm gonna watch wizard of oz . have him look through FAQ
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by Cro on September 7, 2008
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If the kid does make it here, there are several people on this site who are in the business of milking snakes and making antivenom who might be able to help.
Hopefully, they will be able to explain to him just what is involved, and the dangers of "do it yourself" antivenom production.
Best Regards John Z
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by LadyBloodRose on September 7, 2008
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Lord not this kid again......... *sigh*
I came across this hope it helps a bit
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First, the venom is extracted from a live snake (this is called milking). Generally, someone really brave (and fast!) grabs the snake behind the head and holds its mouth over a glass. The snake releases venom from its fangs, which are draped over the lip of the cup. The venom is collected in the glass below. Once enough venom has been extracted, it is bottled, and sent off to a lab.
At the lab, a horse or sheep is injected with 1/10th to 1/100th the lethal dose of venom. Over a period of several weeks, the animal is injected with increasingly potent doses of venom. By the end of about 3 months, the animal is receiving doses several times stronger than a lethal dose. Meanwhile, the animal's body is producing antibodies, which are proteins made by the body to fight foreign substances (such as venom). When you are sick, you may go to the doctor to receive antibiotics - these work the same way. Most of the time, your body actually produces its own antibodies to fight off viruses. That's why most people only get chicken pox once. After the first time, antibodies that "remember" the virus kick in and fight invading germs.
Scientists at the lab withdraw blood from the animal. The blood samples are then centrifuged. This is a really cool process where the container of blood is spun around very fast (in a machine, not in your hands!). When the blood spins, the white blood cells separate from the red blood cells. The white blood cells, collectively called serum, actually contain the antibodies to the venom. This serum is then bottled up and sent off to hospitals.
If you are ever bitten by a venomous snake in Kentucky, the hospital will give you antivenin to counteract the venom in your body. Because all of our venomous snakes are so similar (all are pit vipers), there is actually only one type of antivenin used in this state. Therefore, it is NEVER necessary to bring in the snake that bit you. The treatment is the same for all of them. It is important to first have the doctor test you with a very small dose of antivenin. Some people react badly to antibodies that came from another animal, and there are cases where people have died from the treatment rather than from the snakebite.
*This information compiled from Venomous Reptiles by Sherman A. Minton, Jr. and Madge Rutherford Minton and from Joy's college knowledge
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by alphadogg on September 7, 2008
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LadyBloodRose i told him exactly that... i explained it to him exactly like that.. i wish i have out going mail i can show u ... he is retarted and what can i say :p he has not life and like's starting shit he cannot handle... soo well i do indeed know how to make it due to the fact that my uncle produce's it!! sadly he likes to make some dumb shit up to make me look like a fake, and the fact that im 16 and got snakes bothers him.. so frankly your getting one side of the story not both and he really cut and chopped what i told him
best reguards
-alphadogg
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RE: making antivenom
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by LadyBloodRose on September 7, 2008
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Alpha in all honesty I have nothing against a 16yr old being able to do it. But its actualy having the correct equipment, the right processes, etc. There are peoplein this day an age that can do remarkable things at some verry surpring ages.
however there is alot more to it then just injectingan animal with antivenom an removing the blood. its the whole process of seperation etc.
I can understand the skeptisism.
Knowning how to do it, an actualy doing it are two diffrent things. Anyone can read, or watch something an learn how to do anything. Puting that knowledge into something pyshcial like i said it something else.
After all if it were so simple we would all be making our own antivenom lol!
With a hobby that is so under fire atm many can be realy picky, realy jumpy an quick to fire off at others who do things out side the norm.
The old keeper vs new keeper arguments come out, an everyone gets hot headed.
This is a hobby where as a community weither someones right or wrong we NEED to stand togeather. Education is key, an coperation, an understanding is something that should least be tried.
The he said she said BS gets old fast an frankly its something that I get so tired of seeing from suposedly mature adults.
If you don't like something then STOP A.) Watching it B.) Talking to the person C.) Bringing it up an 4.) Looking at stuff involving it.
That simple.
When someone who is against this hobby goes on one of these froums, an i promise yall they do, an they see this bickering it gives them leverage. Period.
In the end only you know what you can do.
The internet if full of so called "Experts" an "Professionals" an I am sure that there are a few on here, after all they are every where.
Take lick some salt, am take a swallow of vinger, an save the insults, an the petty childiness for the playground an rather offer constructive comments, that help futher knowledge no mater how many times the topic comes up.
Male, female, 10 or 80 years old, 1-50 years exprence etc. We all have a common intrest an that is our Herps.
If ever you stop learning, your dead.
This turned into a bit of a rant, sorry lol.
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by jparker1167 on September 7, 2008
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by alphadogg LadyBloodRose i told him exactly that... i explained it to him exactly like that.. i wish i have out going mail i can show u ... he is retarted and what can i say :p he has not life and like's starting shit he cannot handle... soo well i do indeed know how to make it due to the fact that my uncle produce's it!! sadly he likes to make some dumb shit up to make me look like a fake, and the fact that im 16 and got snakes bothers him.. so frankly your getting one side of the story not both and he really cut and chopped what i told him
alphadogg im retarded ? alphadogg must be the kid from youtube. alpha if you are 16 why does your profile say 26 ? also i never disagreed with horses being used you said you make your own av. im mad you have snakes thats funny i have no problem with 16 year olds keeping snakes i had snakes at 16 so why would i care. one side of the story huh i could post the messages because i havent deleted them. here are a few
omertalover
no i did not google it... i been to that site many many times, and dude i dont want to go to venomousreptiles because i got a life, quite simply i know how to make it and i dont care if you dont belive me, and my mother buys the snakes i bring her good grades and she buys them, she also pays for the food, i have no job atm i just quit chili's because i had to start school again and all my money went into weed lol
omertalover
it is pretty easy m8, and dont know why every owner dont learn how to make it!! and the king is doing good i have just 1 prob i cannot get him to feed on another snake!! he eats mice and f@!# dont eat feeder snakes tough! :( any suggestions?
there are a few messages from him not sure why you think i care if a 16 year old has snakes my newphew is 13 and helps clean snake cages. i have more messages if anyone would like to see them..
croc i agreed that horses are used but was telling him that its not as easy as injecting a horse and then waiting and taking blood from the horse and having av.
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by FSB on September 8, 2008
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Wait a minute.... I'm pretty sure he's already been here. Isn't this the same kid, alphadogg, who posted last month: "hey can u get immune to venom?? and if so is there any venom u cannot get immune to?"
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by Cro on September 8, 2008
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Frederick, you are right, it is the same person.
Persistant, isn't he ?
Best Regards John Z
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