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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by Buzztail1 on September 22, 2008
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First and foremost - I would like to say - you get what you pay for.
Your desire to not fill out your profile and the things you have said make you seem to be the latest web incarnation of muffdaddy.
The advice you are receiving is from two 16 year-old keepers with not a lot of experience.
The folks on this website who have decades of experience keeping everything from US Copperheads to Australian Death Adders tend to shy away from answering questions from someone who is not even willing to give enough information to prove that they are adult.
So, the advice and answers you are likely to get are not of the caliber or quality that you might be expecting from the "Ask the Experts" forum.
I can certainly say with absolutely no reservations that NO-ONE WITH ANY REAL VENOMOUS EXPERIENCE ON THIS WEBSITE WOULD RECOMMEND GETTING A VENOMOID TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE VENOMOUS SNAKES!!!
R/
Karl H. Betz
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by LadyBloodRose on September 22, 2008
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Stealth also please fill out your profile more accurately it will help everyone here answer any questions you have ;).
Nick (muffdaddy) is right about telling you not to try an train your sav like he has. Its to large a risk that your sav would turn on what ever animal you have next to it.
Venomoids = BAD - stay away from them. It's a meautilating practice often done by back yard vets an causes a keeper to let down their guard.
EDB are awsome snakes ;) but definately beware the pointy end of course. Like Arin sujested i'd start out with a small/young one. Not a neonate, but one bigger possibly large enough to take fuzzys/hoppers or adult mice since smaller snakes can be alil be more difficult to work with.
outa curriosity how long have you kept copperheads? how many?
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by LadyBloodRose on September 22, 2008
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i fully agree with Karl on the venomoid issue btw. If you can't handel the fully loaded hot, you shouldn't have one.
havinga nsake made into a venomoid is for our convenience something is not fair to the animals we love an desire to keep. You have to have respect for these animals. making a snake a venomoid is not showing any form of respect for that animal..
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by PitVipers on September 22, 2008
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Stay AWAY from Muffdaddy/FluffDaddy
He is HORRIBLE when handling venomous snakes.
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by puffadder7 on September 22, 2008
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also karl just because i am sixteen dosent mean i dont have alot of experience, maybe if you met me in person you would change your mind about that anyway, arin
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by LadyBloodRose on September 22, 2008
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come on guys lets not turn this into the older keeper vs. the younger keeper debate.
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by Buzztail1 on September 22, 2008
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Arin,
You are reading into what I said.
I did not say that you don't have any experience.
I did not say that your experience was not valid.
It is what it is.
You would like to be considered a peer among people who have kept these snakes for decades.
Who would you rather receive advice from?
Someone who has kept and bred the snake in question for 30 years or someone who has read several books and kept them for 4 years?
If you really believe that the right answer is the guy with the books and 4 years keeping experience, then there is probably nothing for you to learn at this site.
Many of the people offering advice here are zoo keepers like John Zegel, Larry Lemon, Rob Carmichael, Jim Harrison and Doug Hotle. Others are scientists who do taxonomic and field research like Wolgang Wüster and Brian Grieg Fry. Still others have been breeding venomous snakes for decades like Sierra, Chuck Hurd and Derek Morgan.
I, personally, have been keeping venomous snakes for over 30 years and can tell you that when I am in a room with most of the people I have just listed, I am either asking questions or taking notes.
So yeah, when someone posts a bogus profile and asks questions about going from keeping the most mildly venomous snake in North America to the largest venomous snake in North America with the highest venom yield and the only two people to respond are not yet old enough to legally own venomous snakes in any state in the union - I am going to say something about it.
I am sorry if I offended you.
That was not my intention.
R/
Karl H. Betz
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by puffadder7 on September 22, 2008
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there is no need to apologize, i completely understand and i respect all of you older keepers with out a doubt so im sorry to, also you are an influence to me and thats why i love this site so much i cant say thank you enough for caring, arin
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by theemojohnm on September 22, 2008
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Well,
I myself am 16, and feel I can "keep up" in the general day to day conversations most of the experts here debate daily to a decent degree.
But in all reality, when I have a problem or an absolutely baffling question, I consult John Zegel and ussually come across the input of the others mentioned above.
There is only so much books can tell you, but the opinion of someone who has seen it and done it is FAR more valuable.
I think what some of the "old school" keepers dont realize is that, at some of the more inteliigent keeprs, who TRULY have an interest in these animals, DO TAKE NOTES from all of you guys! LOL...
I myself curently have over 30 threads saved to my computer from this site for personal use (excluding the input of the uninformed (alpha, etc)).
Take Care.
~John.
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RE: THIS IS MY FIRST TIME AND I HAVE A FEW QUESTIO
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by theemojohnm on September 22, 2008
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"..it seems to me hes a threat to the older herpers."
Stealth,
I cannot tell you how sick to my stomach that comment makes me.
IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT KEEPING ANY LIVING ANIMAL! PERIOD!
That man has mentality of a 12 year old. Look up some older posts on this site and just see how much of a "threat" he is!!!
Do you have ANY idea the credentials and experience levels the true "experts" here have???!!! I'm sorry. I do not like this debate either, but have you honestly watched the videos, heard his advice?
That comment MORE than crosses the line. THE ONLY THING THAT MAN HAS DONE FOR THE HOBBY, IS GIVE THE MEMBERS OF THE MOST QULAIFIED AND KNOWLEDGABLE ORGANIZATIONS IN THIS COUNTRY (such as THIS place), A GOOD LAUGH FROM TIME TO TIME.
If you truly believe that guy has any idea what he is talking about, YOU need to go do YOUR research quickly, and preferably GET RID of your animals until then!
OH MY LORD how that guy has brain washed innocent folks. PLEASE, look up some of his old posts here.
It is safe to say that NO reptile can be "tamed", their thought process does not allow it, not to say reptiles are "stupid", just programmed to survive. Some just have better temperaments than others.
If you have any questions feel free to email me. If I can assist in saving ANYONE from Muffdaddy's lack of intelligence and shear stupidity, it would make me NOTHING more than happy.
Also, as mentioned, going from a copperhead (likely under the advice of MUFFDADDY!) to an EDB, is a HUGE step. Take your time. But if you are under the impression that any advice from the high and mighty muffdaddy will help you, and you plan to use it....god help this hobby, and I will pray for you as well.
"a threat to older keepers"... That is perhaps the UTMOST ridiculous and dumb comment I have heard anywhere.
I never conduct myself in this manner, especially on this site, but my blood is boiling.
The true "experts" here certainly will not give you as harsh a response as this for many reasons. But you definitely need to reconsider. Look at some member profiles, and older posts here. The people here happen to be as good as it gets, and comparing them to muffdaddy ought to be punishable by law!
Any questions regarding handling of the sav, or EDB questions you have, feel free to email me. Although I can assure you that if you were to fill in your profile HERE, you will get FAR better answers, from the EXPERTS in the captive husbandry of hots in this country, many zoo keepers, and VERY well known scientists in the field (WW coming to mind?).
Sorry for this harsh rant, but that single comment SERIOUSLY needs to be thought over.
Take Care.
~John.
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