|
1-10 of 14 messages
|
Page 1 of 2
Next
|
|
Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hybrid
|
Reply
|
|
by ChuckHurd on October 11, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
http://www.exoticanimalforums.com/eastern-x-western-diamondback-hybrid-t851.html
I posted a few photographs of my EDB x WDB Hybrid on my forum. I think she is probably a more unusual snake then my EDB x Canebrake Hybrid. I always enjoy getting other prospectives, so those that have time, leave me some feedback on what you notice about her. thank you.
Chuck Hurd
www.ChuckHurd.com
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by Rob_Carmichael on October 12, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Cool snake Chuck,
I'm just not a big fan of hybrids. The problems as I see it is that the private community doesn't have a unified system (or any system for that matter) to show lineages and in time, many hybrid species (just hybrid herps in general) end up sneaking into "pure" bloodlines and before long, we have a lot of screwed up captive populations and folks keeping "pure lines" when in fact they have mutts. Although many folks like you probably have meticulous record keeping systems of your own, many folks don't and it becomes virtually impossible to track these captive family trees once animals get circulated through the private sector. Go to just about any herp show and 95% of the animals sold come without any background info. The chondro sector have actually done a great job in this area and something others should look at. If there's one thing you can say about AZA, they have incredibly detailed record keeping and you can track any animal's life from birth to death....it's pretty impressive. We just received a snake from a well known zoo and I think several trees were used to make the paper necessary for the documents for this one snake! It included documents to show transfers, dob, feeding charts, routine veterinary exams, etc. The pack was almost two inches thick and this was just a 2-year old animal. Folks bash AZA here every now and then but they run circles around the private sector when it comes to meticulous record keeping.
Just my random thoughts (and that's before I've had my coffee so I just may be full of b.s.).
Rob
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on October 12, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The Eastern crossed with a Western Diamond-backed Rattlesnake is kind of interesting, in that it can tell us a bit about what genetic features of the two snakes are Dominant and what are Recessive.
However, Rob makes a very good point also, as it does produce a "mutt." It is common at reptile shows to see folks selling reptiles with signs that say "possible 50% for albino" or similar, which means that they do not know what they are selling. Those animals look normal, but could be carriers for all kinds of weird genes from all kinds of weird crosses. Often crossing animals back like that and inbreeding produces weak offspring. In snakes it often produces kinked tails, or other spinal deformaties.
However, having a two inch thick book of records on a two year old snake sounds like an AZA "obsessive-compulsive" record keeping disorder, LOL. While feeding charts are good, keeping a record of everytime a snake takes a dump is just not needed !
If we were talking about dogs, we could easily see that mutt dogs often make the best pets, as the combine the charistics of two different types of dogs. And often the "pure bred" dogs have issues. After all, they were all produced from wolf like ancestors by selevtive breeding by man. That often caused problems like hip dysplacia, etc., in certain breeds.
Do we need an AKC registration thing for pure bred snakes ?
In the wild, snakes are usually not as promiscuous as dogs and cats are. However, there are some populations of rattlesnakes where hybrid crosses are quite common.
There are areas in the Western States where the Western Diamond-backed Rattlesnake and the Mojave Rattlesnake have lived side by side for thousands of years, and the natural hybridization rate between these snake reaches as high as 20%.
Anyway, just a few random observations on this topic, with no particullar conclusion in mind.
Best Regards John Z
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by ChuckHurd on October 12, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Rob, unlike many animals, its a painstaking process to get these things to breed. i don't foresee them ever being over produced. You ever gona send me those IL timbers? =)
John, I would love to see a registration system. in fact, i proposed that idea back in 2006 on the speakout topic.
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/speakout/opinions/71
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by LadyBloodRose on October 12, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
that would be a great idea actualy i wonder what it would take to start a registry like that?
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by toddg on October 13, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Just a dumb breeder question, don't anybody dogpile on but, since are closly related, would they then produce fertile offspring?
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by earthguy on October 13, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Technically speaking they are in different species, so they should NOT produce fertile offspring (that is one of the functional definitions of 'species'). With that said, there are several cases of fertile mules, so there is at least the possibility that if we breed thousands (or millions) of these hybrids at least a few may be fertile.
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by Cro on October 13, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Or, perhaps all of the offspring will be fertile, and we will have to throw the definition of Species out with the bath water, and find a new definition !
That should keep Wolfgang W. busy for a while, LOL !
Best Regards John Z
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by ChuckHurd on October 13, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
we proved that wrong this year. we have produced live off spring from our cottonmouth x copperhead hybrids that were originally produced 4 years ago using a male southern copperhead bread to a female FL cottonmouth. Hybrids certainly can reproduce, at least hybrids of southeastern pit vipers.
|
| |
|
RE: Photos of my Eastern x Western Diamondback Hyb
|
Reply
|
|
by yoyoing on October 14, 2008
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
When I look at the range maps, these species don't seem to overlap, making natural interbreeding impossible. I am not against the experiment, just wondering why these species are considered kissing cousins when they never encounter each other in nature.
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to this topic.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Check our help page for help using
, or send questions, comments, or suggestions to the
Manager.
|
