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RE: Proof a venomoid can become venomous again!
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by JHarrison on October 16, 2008
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Joe,
We were doing this as a demo but did do ELISA and the two snakes had yields of .15 and .13 grams lyophilized.
Is this of medical importance? Since LD50's mean something to mice but may have little to do with outcome to a human . I will leave it up to others to decide. My feelings are that no amount of venom belongs in your body and that all hots(venomoid or not should be handle the same way).
For an interesting paper check out Dr.Hayes paper on Naja nigricollis in Journal of Herp.
Take care,
Jim
Also for reference Naja naja the same size when individually extracted from for a project had yields of .1 to .25 grams
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RE: Proof a venomoid can become venomous again!
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by FLherp on October 22, 2008
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Like many headlines, the title of this thread is a bit of hyperbole. I don't think that most people would argue that it is possible, that does not mean that it is probable.
Venom yield does not only relate to LD50 in mice. While true that no amount of venom is healthy, less is better in the instance of an accident. Accidents do happen.
What surgery was performed, a duct ligation, a ductectomy or a gland-duct removal with cauterization? Was it ever demonstrated that they were unable to produce venom? I would think that capability to produce venom in these animals could imply unsuccessful surgery, rather than regeneration of ability to produce venom. It might also be a case of a simple ligation in which the venom gland remains intact and the duct is cut, perhaps not cut completely, tied off or cauterized; the gland will continue to produce venom and if the enough tissue remains, it will make its way to the delivery apparatus (I think that qualifies as unsuccessful surgery, honestly). It may even be a case of outright fraud - I can sell a "venomoid" cobra for a great deal more than an intact cobra (if I were unethical). A few scars and hey, presto, I can sell it as a venomoid. I know of at least one alleged venomoid that was anything but...
Perhaps someone is willing to test the effectiveness of various surgeries and measure the yields produced by these animals - requires intact animals as well as animals that have had various surgeries performed by competent people. It would probably be best to test the animals over a number of years to see if venom production and delivery regenerated in any/some/all cases. It would require examination of those animals that produced venom to see what occured.
In any case, the handling of venomous snakes is inherently dangerous and they should be treated as if they are intact (altered or not).
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