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Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by TheFifthDay on December 17, 2008
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Is there a safe and effective way to sterilize leaf litter?
I was thinking about freezing the leafs for 24-36 hours and then thawing them out. Does this sound like it would kill the parasites that are probably on them?
I don't want any more of my snakes to get sick, so I'm open to any suggestions.
(By the way, my boa is doing MUCH better.)
Thanks,
Jon Short
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RE: Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by Cro on December 17, 2008
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Jon, it is good to hear that he Boa is doing better.
As far as freezing, that will kill a lot of active critters in leaf litter, but might not kill all of them.
Some critters have eggs in a dormant stage that are very resistant to freezing, droughts, etc
This allows the animals to survive the "off season" like winter, and wait to hatch out again at the proper time of year.
I would suggest that you spray a bit of permanon based insecticide on the floor of each cage, and let it dry before putting the litter on top of it, or putting snakes in there.
That way, if any critters do survive the freezing, or hatch out, they should be killed by the spray. The very expensive Prevent-A-Mite will work, however, the clothing treatment called Repel, that is available in the Wallymart sporting goods section next to the insect repellents, is exactly the same thing, and costs 1/4 as much. I have used it for years with good results.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by viandy on December 17, 2008
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This topic comes up pretty often with invertebrates, especially millipedes and other detritivores. They do best in partially composted leaf litter. How to give that without introducing organisms that will harm them directly, out compete them, etc? Pesticides aren't an option for that situation. Freezing is used by some. It is generally thought that a regular home freezer is not able to do an adequate job. If you have access to cryo freezers, -80 celsius, or can use enough dry ice to thoroughly freeze the leaves for several hours , those work well.
Most people don't have access to that, for them steaming leaves is the best option. Use a large steamer pot, the size you see for crabs, or for frying turkeys, with an insert to hold the leaves over an few inces of water. Be sure to put plenty of water in! I like to have the leaves wet, that way they compress more easily into the pot (loosely packed) and they won't absorb all the water and make the pot dry. If you have camp stove or other ability to heat them outside that's probably easiest. Keeping them covered and steaming for 30 minutes to an hour seems to do it nicely, making sure that the water doesn't all evaporate and start a fire. I let them sit for several hours or overnight to cool down, I don't want to explain how I burned myself while steaming oak leaves. The general concensus is that this is most effective when your spouse is not at home.
This is anectdotal and from personal experience. You might wonder how the leaves keep decomposing after being sterilized. My belief is that the agents for this circulate airborn in enough quantity to be replenished quickly. The things we want to keep out, such as ants, should be killed by these methods.
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RE: Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by theemojohnm on December 17, 2008
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Oh, this is right up my alley! I use almost ALL of my cage decor from the back yard, and have not had any mite problems in years.
I have always been a stickler for "as natural as I can get" with cage decor, and so I have experiemented and come up with my own proven methods. I will admit, it can be a major pain, and for most, buying all their decor from the local PetCo is probably easier.
I posted the method I use in a thread here not too long back, but cannot remember which one it was. I will post it again here later, as I just do not have the time at the moment.
Good to hear that the boa is doing better Jon!
Take Care,
~John Mendrola.
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RE: Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by Rob_Carmichael on December 17, 2008
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I must be doing something wrong - I've been collecting dead/dry leaves for years for our exhibits and just place them directly into the exhibits - same with bark/branches/logs/limbs. In all of my years, I have never had a parasite problem - perhaps small exposure to natural organisms is of benefit. Or, I just may be very lucky or blessed. We only collect leaves in a pristine tall grass savanna so that may be one contributing factor. We do get the occasional hatch out of some flying insect but not too often (and nothing that a little provent a mite can't fix).
With all things being equal, though, I think John's method and some of the others would be a great way to go.
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RE: Is there a safe and effective way to....
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by Viperlady on December 17, 2008
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whenever I consider it necessary I use the quickest method: MICROWAVE
I commonly microwave drinking and feeder plates, rocks, sand, and even leaf litter, but I always make sure they're wet enough not to get burned, and the time and power needed depends on each oven... BTW, I have an exclusive oven for that kind of stuff.
Another easy, but not completely sterile method is washing the leaves with a Iodopovidone solution of 1-10
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by herpboy on December 17, 2008
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Very interesting topic that has only been touched on slightly. I stand split down the middle on this one. The simple thought of introducing potentially harmful chemical agents into the environment of a creature that literally lays on the ground with its head a whopping inch or two off of the floor just doesn't sit right with me. Though I know several keepers who have used such pest preventatives and have had no problems with them, I still ponder... I helped a keeper clean an entire collection once, and I clearly recall using two types of chemicals (one in a powder state, and one in a liquid state). Though I dont remember right off the bat exactly what they were, I do remember him telling me that he has been using them for years. This was in moderation of course. Keep in mind that a typical cage leaves the animal in close quarters all of the time, there for leaving the animal in almost constant contact with the used substances. Also keep in mind the amount of air exchange within the cage. In general, when it comes to reptilian husbandry stagnant air is usually not a good thing. I’m no herp vet but add on top of that a few different chemicals giving off fumes. Sounds like a headache to me. However, I myself have used certain mite killing products manufactured specifically for the hobby. To this day I have only had one mite outbreak, and whatever brand I used seemed to do the trick. Take in to account that I did not openly spray any of the product into the cage. I just isolated it and cleaned it thoroughly until there was absolutely no sign of a parasite. I find the comments on steaming to be intriguing. In my opinion it may be more work than it is worth. Everyone has their own method though, so I applaud you for thinking outside of the box. Going completely natural is in a sense, well…, NATURAL. Sure, every wild reptile has some sort of parasite load (as I understand it), so unless you are constantly moving new specimens in and out of the area where your collection resides, I don’t see much of a problem with picking up a handful of leaves and throwing them in. I am not 100% positive, but I was once told that mites themselves are not native. So really it comes down to common sense. I wouldn’t worry to much about an occasional stick or pile of leaves considering the fact that you know that you don’t have an existing potential for a mite outbreak. I will try to follow this up with some of the chemicals “known to be successful.”
Bryan Hudson
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by tnblader on December 17, 2008
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Also you can buy camouflage that looks like a bunch of leafs and it is fairly cheap and doesn’t have to be frozen sprayed or anything a lot of people use it for turkey hunting and it comes in a variety of colors and foliage patterns from small to large leafs
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by agkistrodude on December 18, 2008
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This topic has been discussed many times here, I also do the "natural look" in my cages.Every fall I collect a trash bag full of oak leaves from the yard and place the bag in my chest freezer for a week. I've never had a problem.I know people that just pick it up out of the yard and use it like Rob said, and I have done that on occasion, but a week in deep freeze is my preference.The bag lasts till next Fall. I do the same with logs or branches.Johns suggestion of the Repel treatment works well too as I've used it a couple of times with mite infested "rescue" snakes.Just be sure its dry and aired out before you put the snake in.I like the microwave suggestion, but it would't work on larger things like logs and stuff. Take care, Marty
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