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I should have known.....
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by TomT on March 9, 2003
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I should have known that someone would read what I said, and manage to twist the recommendation into something bad. I should have included a disclaimer that mentioned something like "CAUTION" deploy some common sense before reading this message and applying it to your life.... but I didn't.
I'd never recommend a Mamba to anyone. Mambas are one of the few venomous snakes that scare me. When I replied to the request for help, I didn't REALLY believe that the person who had made the post was interested in a Mamba or any other quick elapid, but I can see now that I will have to assume (and God knows I hate that word) that I am replying to teenagers.
PLEASE do not go out and get a large elapid for your first venomous snake. Buy a captive bred animal, regardless of what species you desire. It's easier on you (no medicating) and it's easier on the snake (no catheters down the gullet). It's even easier on wild populations (no one has to collect an animal for you).....
I will be more reflective in the ramifications of my responses from here on out. I will no longer forget that not everyone that asks a question here is adult enough to think for themselves.
Tom
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RE: I should have known.....
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by BGF on March 10, 2003
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I start my students on Boigas. Mental and very inclined to bite. Good for bringing up to speed. The ultimate test is Ptyas. If you can work with a Ptyas carinatus without getting nailed, you can do mambas. These are a psychotic giant ratsnake from Asian. Lots of very sharp teeth. Bites down as hard as a king cobra. About the same shape (but with a ridge down the back, thats why they are called ridged back ratsnakes. About as sane as a hyped up ridgeback dog!). Gets real big. 4 meters. Can leave some serious scar tissue. Tim Jackson and I had a blast with them. We had one monster that could hit you in the face from the floot. Lexy got her first glimpse of what my reflexes are when I really give a shit (calmly caught it about two inches from my face). A different snake boiled out of the cage one time (yeah I'll just take its box and hook it out... good idea) and almost got me in the face. I was flailing backwards. Tim was pissing himself laughing. ;-)
Its funny the different act we take when talking about first hot snake. How is anyone who has kept only rattlesnakes still given cred for even the Australian elapids. Diamondback to taipan. Hmmmm.... Not. But what about the reverse? Elapids to vipers? Hm.. But colubrids to elapids certainly works. Lots of similarity there too. Our Psammophis mossambica were very mamba like. The Rhabdophis were totally spinouts. But we launched straight into them. So, what is the best first hot really depends on what, as Tom alluded to, your long term interests are.
If you are really into elapids, then I would suggest starting with monocled cobras (Naja kaouthia). You get the occasional psycho but most are fairly easy to work with. This would be a good bridge to a totally schizo snake like the Cape cobra (Naja nivea). If your long term interest is in vipers and rattlesnakes, then I would suggest starting with something like the red diamondback (Crotalus ruber). Real mellow. Absolute sweethearts.
So, after you pull through a couple hundred Boigas and other mental Asian colubrids such as radiated ratsnakes (Elaphe radiata) and ridged back rat snake (Ptyas carinatus). One of my students did that. Next thing he was pulling boomslangs and mambas. In about three months. But this was fulltime every day with lots of snakes, about five hundred colubrids! Some of which could give bad bites on their own. Go for something nasty like blood pythons and green tree pythonds to get a bit of a feel for terrestrial and arboreal vipers. Viper boas (Candoia) are also excellent trainers for vipers. Total bastards.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
BGF
www.venomdoc.com
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RE: help
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by surucucu on March 12, 2003
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In my opinion, a timber rattlesnake is a great beginer snake. No one ever mentions them, maybe there is a reason for that, but I have never had trouble with them. They are usually very docile, and a beautiful snake. I've never had any problems getting them to eat either. also, they are very wide spread and if you do get bit, chances are your local hospital will have the correct antivenom and no problem treating you. I guess it's all a matter of opinion, and mine is definitely biased.
Chris
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RE: help
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by spanky on March 12, 2003
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Good point. Timbers are a great first snake. I have a 3 footer that I can free handle. (Do not do this) My point is that thay are one of the better snakes to deal with. Like Cris said. (Go Timbers)
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RE: help
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by ianb on March 13, 2003
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A timber was my first!!! No complaints at all. Wonderful eater, good moderate legnth, not to jumpy or tempermental but enough to make you cautious. He did shit a lot like any rattlesnake and I had to clean his cage weekly. I had him about three years before trading him. Plus he had really no special requirements and was very hardy, with anivenom within minutes away. Now my first neonate copper was different. Wouldn't eat and I had to give him to Filthy who had to pass him on before he would eat. Mangrove was great to. Good eater, beautiful, not deadly, and had a slow but long strike, which gave my good practice. The mangrove was basically lethargic, until you stirred him up a bit. Waglers is a good options to or popes tree viper.
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RE: help
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by varivenom on July 25, 2011
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Ill tell you what I told my younger brother when he decided he wanted to enter our world. Get a wc coachwhip. Keep it for a year, and if you can respect it and work with it and not get bit them we'll talk about a siamensis or a lubricus. Mainly because his attraction to elapids. I wanted him to learn the sheer speed and velocity one can present as well as attitude. Which is why I choose coachwhips. Just my 2¢. Best of luck and be CAREFUL. A slip on your part affects us all.
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RE: help
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by Kingetula on July 25, 2011
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I would stay with something small LIKE...
* Pygmy
* Sidewinder
These were some of my first's. I didn't start out with neonates so any feeding issues, getting them started on pinks was not an issue.
Being struck from feet away wasn't an issue. Using a smaller hook but long enough to work with was better IMO. Changing water bowls, cleaning poop and not worrying about being struck from the other side of the cage was nice (depending how large YOUR cage will be and size of snake). You can also put a barrier of sorts (Plexiglass with handle) in front of the snake as you work around the snake.
Anti-venom is found at most if not all hospitals so there was no wondering if I would have to wait for some to be flown in or whatever if I was bit.
With Pygmy RS (Dusky for example) they are pretty cheap so if they are not your thing, you can trade or sell them without much of a lose if any, depending.
From these snakes you could move on up in size and speed.
Just do your research on the snake you plan on getting and make sure you can mentally and physically handle the bite of the snake you choose. Any snake can screw you up but there are some I would rather be bit by if I am going to be bit than others.
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RE: help
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by LarryDFishel on July 25, 2011
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TJ, this is not a big deal (and sometimes makes sense), but check the dates on messages before replying to them. You've been replying to things people posted 8 years ago...
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RE: help
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by agkistrodude on July 27, 2011
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There have been a few of these old threads popping up lately that folks are responding to as if they are new. Like the ones titled "Mouth Sore", and "Western Pygmys". I go through the old archives occasionally and read old posts, But be aware, if you post on one it brings it to the top of the list.I've gotten in the habit of checking the dates before I reply to a thread. Sometimes, it's good to have new, updated info on an old topic. And sometimes it's just an "Oooops!"
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