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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by TAIPAN78 on March 19, 2003
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Ok, now this is getting ridiculus. First, Spanky, man,
you have no idea what your talking about! Tom knows a hell of alot more about snake envenomations then your giveing him credit for. I wont go into details, Ill let Tom feild that one, but if there were anyone I would call to consult on a bite, it would be him(well, maybe Sean Bush or BGF but they wouldnt be as easy to reach as Tom:-)
Secondly, any of you who say free handleing a Crotalid isnt a bad idea needs to give up keeping these snake now!!!! Crotalids are by far the worse to free handle! Your whole body glows like food to them and any un safe handleing is totaly reckless and should be avoided by any sane person! Ill even go as far as to make the statement that one would be safer free handleing almost any Naja over a Pitviper. Not saying its a good idea but man, think about all of the times you have walked by a pitvpers cage and heard "wam" aginst the glass or observed the animal coming closer with a very interested look on their face when something warm is waved infront of them. Personaly, everyone of my 10 Crotalids, rangeing from Agkistrodon to Trimeresurus will nail anything warm that is put in front of their face and outa the atleast 50 different animals(all pitvipers)which I have kept over the years, only one, a very timid Northern Copperhead would I have considered docile enogh, maybe not too bite. Even she had her days though.
Basicly what im getting at is, no matter what, no pitviper should be free handled, period. They are a heat seaking, always loaded missle just waiting to take off and Ill be damned if a few years in captivity are going to change millions of years of evolution. Remember, they have evolved to be mice traps and body heat is the trigger for them.
One last note regarding Spanky and your self imunization. Tell me, what dilution of snake venom to water do you use? Were do you inject? What have been the effects thus far? Any symptoms from the injections?
Basicly, in great detail, what are the exact procedures that you use and why do you use it?
BTW, im calling you out on that one just incase you couldnt tell. Please elaborate.
Welp, my 2 pennies for what their worth,
Jeremy
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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Anonymous post on March 19, 2003
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Just let it go guys, live and let live,but if we did that then we wouldn't have anything to do.
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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Anonymous post on March 19, 2003
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Just let it go guys, live and let live,but if we did that then we wouldn't have anything to do.
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by Hotherps on March 20, 2003
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I am not going to involve myself with the subject of free handling, one thing that I would say is that we should all act in a responsible manor when keeping venomous snakes. Why, well for one thing our actions can impact upon the lives of others. Last year I was bitten by a young Crotalus atrox (seriously nasty bite) and we had to resort to using out of date antivenom because our stock had been greatly depleted by some private (idiot) keeper who had been bitten by his “pet” Crotalus adamateus 3 times within 18 months!
Even if you are immune or there are good stockpiles of antivenom, each and every bite by captive held venomous is yet more bad publicity that we can do without. Regards, Paul D. Rowley
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by TAIPAN78 on March 21, 2003
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Hey fizzbob,
A few questions. First, have you been paying attention to all of the news items on this site and or at kingsnake? Have you not seen the county and state trends that fallow incidents from private keepers? Quite a few states have out lawed all venomous keeping and damn near all herp keeping because of un qualified individuals haveing accidents. Somtimes escapes are the starw that finnaly broke the legislative back but more commonly they are envenomations which draw upon un wanted attention and make the powers that be start strokeing their beards in wonder about current laws.
Also, ponder this. If one gets nailed and gets news coverage, it brings things to the attention of the public. If the public dosent like you keeping these horribly dangerous animals, even if their claims are ridiculous then they complain to the powers that be. In a Democracy, the people deside and if the majority of the people in said "screw up's" commnity are aginst the keeping of these animals(which more then likely they will be) then quess what!?!?!?! They are out lawed and "screw up" just cost anyone in the area their right to keep. Occasionaly this ends up at the state level and then your talking about a hole state worth of keepers "screw up" just cost their right.
Now of cource bites happen, even to the best of us but takeing dangerous chances only makes these events more common and just makes our whole community look bad. It looks alot better when someone gets nailed during a feeding response from their very hungery cobra but has a secure room, protacalls and takes all nesesary steps of safety for himself and everyone around then rather then some screw up getting nailed in the face, while he was free handleing his tame C.atrox and showing neighborhood hoodlums. Of cource the media has a way of turning any situation into the worst but you are muc more likely to get your true point across if you wernt acting a fool in the first place.
Bottom line, acting a fool with venomous snakes, weather you self imunize or not(which is highly suspect in my mind regarding spanky)only makes you look like a foolish keeper and in turn, gives all of us "private" individuals a bad name.
Be curtious to the hobby, thats all I ask.
Regards,
Jeremy
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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Anonymous post on March 21, 2003
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I freehandle my venomous quite often and get a huge rush. I have always said that when the day comes that a nursing home is around the corner, that will be the day i take a bite from one of my many cobras. I can't think of a more awesome end to my fun filled life. Jane doe
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by fizzbob7 on March 21, 2003
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puuuhlease....if no one was to be bitten from now on in any type of situation, it wouldn't make a difference.....whenever you pursue things outside of the norm, regardless of the situation, you're starting out running uphill.....i agree that it can't be good for anything, especially the one who is bitten, but labeling it as "the reason our hobby has the restrictions that it does" is just ridiculous....if people in power actually wanted to help the situation, then they wouldn't put out blanket bans...they would help people who were interested in setting up classes that teach proper techniques.....maybe make it where you mess up and are bitten 1 or 2 times and then have no more priveleges......make it where you are at least able to get permits.....in alabama, i can keep snakes native to my state, but no others.....this is because a 15 year old allegedly bought a cobra and mamba and they ended up getting loose around here.....so they banned all exotics....that was a situation where they did something just to appease the hicks around here...will it help prevent snakebites?...NOPE, cuz i can easily get a big timber rattler and last i heard they bite.....until snake lovers are in the right places, then stupid laws are gonna keep coming, regardless of what our hobby does.....they bring up things like the environment and how badly it would be injured cuz of exotic species setting up shop here permanently and whatever, but it's all politics....if you're making the voters happy, then you can continue to be overpaid and underworked with a future term.....the media turns natural snakebite incidents into scenes....a moron is trying to kill a rattler in his backyard and ends up a "victim" and it's all over how snakes are people predators....maybe if places where set up so that you could make a quick call and have it removed for free, then that would cut down on those scenarios...educating people all over is the answer, but there are too many people who choose ignorance as a way of life...hence this issue, racial discrimination, and all other types of discrimination...it's all too bad
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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Anonymous post on March 21, 2003
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Hicks? Pot calling the kettle black isn't it????
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by biff on March 21, 2003
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To say that bites to private keepers, esp. exotics, do not cause new laws to be promulgated is being naive. Even a conservative gov't can't help but try to protect individuals from themselves.
I can almost guarantee you that most legislators never even thought of private individuals having cobras, etc, therefore it's a behavior they haven't thought to regulate (yet). Many people (my dad for example) think that private individuals would at least need a special permit, if keeping these animals were legal at all. So for a large number of the general public, they never even consider that some of their neighbors may actually have "poisonous snakes". Then they hear about it when/if a keeper is bitten, thus immediate negative publicity. They never hear about the several thousand hours of safe keeping.
While you are entitled to your own opinion, you're not being realistic if you don't think that every bite that gets publicized(esp. foolhardy ones) moves us closer to either a complete ban or a permit system, both of which I am against.
my .02
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RE: What do you all think about this one???
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by fizzbob7 on March 21, 2003
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i just don't think it's the main factor in all the laws....in this state, it was NOT a factor at all, but exotic snakes getting loose was....and if the gov't was as concerned about the public's safety as it SHOULD be, then teaching people how to drive would be priority #1....every single keeper could wear their snakes as necklaces in public and the negative effects wouldnt amount to what bad driving does.....most of the population is afraid of venomous snakes, so they shouldn't be worried about a king cobra being in each household....this fear is what drives politicians to make these laws, to appease the majority....like i said though, nothing at all good about being bitten, but i just don't think it's much of a factor....irresponsiblity could be though, and it all goes hand in hand....kinda like how people raise pit bulls to fight and they do something bad or kill someone then the whole breed gets a bad name...my pitbulls and rottweilers are all huge babies....i have a monster rottweiler (175lbs and not at all obese) who is a big teddy bear...he will bite in situations that he should, i.e., burglary (yes it's happened once and he got 'em), but he won't hurt anyone that acts human.....if people would just learn about what they are so scared of and what they wanna keep as a hobby or whatever....life would be so much less stressful
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