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by steff on April 12, 2009
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i want to know if the forest is as toxic as the cape. I know that the forest has larger glands.But i don't know which one has the hottest.
thank you and God bless
russ anderson
p.s. i was wondering where they rank as far as green mambas go. Because i know that the capes are more toxic then the East African green mambas
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by puffadder7 on April 12, 2009
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no, the forest cobras is not nearly as toxic as a cape cobra, the two most toxic cobras are phillipine cobras and cape cobras, i am for sure on this one, i have kept both species and currently keep cape cobras, if you want to find out more type in, cape cobra venom, in your serch engine, hope this helps, arin
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by AquaHerp on April 12, 2009
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Forest cobras can be quite the formidable foe in captivity. On the other hand I have seen a number of them that are quite apathetic.
In regards to toxicity, I love these questions. Toxic based upon what; the LD50? Works well if you are a mouse. If a person is asking because they are deciding between two species for captivity......venomous is venomous, both will get you dead quite sufficiently.
DH
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by najasuphan on April 12, 2009
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I had posted the info from that book solely as a reference to the effects of the venom, not their mention of the demeanor. The pair of Forest cobras that I've been keeping for the last few years, and ones that I've dealt with in the past, haven't really been too awful. They're big, fast snakes but not the maniacal beasts you always hear about. Maybe I'm just lucky though.
As far as the most toxic, I have always heard that Cape cobras were the most toxic African cobra, besides the water cobras of course, but if you look at the LD50 chart for intravenous, Naja melanoleuca has an LD50 of 0.289 whereas Naja nivea has an LD50 of 0.57. Naja melanoleuca is rated as higher than both Naja naja and Naja atra on the intravenous LD50, to which all three are above Naja nivea , but Naja naja and Naja atra are still higher than Naja nivea on the subcutaneous chart. I don't put much faith in the LD50 charts but I figured that I would point that out. Of course, all of the info above is from the LD50 charts so take it with a grain of salt.
If you look on AFPMB ( http://www.afpmb.org/pubs/living_hazards/snakes.html#B ) it says that the Cape cobra is the most toxic of all African cobras.
That's what makes these questions unanswerable because a lot of the info available seems dodgy at best. Pretty much, they both can kill you. I know that doesn't answer your question but there doesn't really seem to be a good answer available. If you go by the LD50 charts, then Naja melanoleuca is more toxic. If you go by some other sources, Naja nivea is more toxic.
I think until information from proper, up-to-date testing is released you are always going to get these varied answers.
-Jamie
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by theemojohnm on April 12, 2009
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You are exactly correct Jamie. The firearms analogy is again very appropriate for this situation.
"What is more life-threatening, a .22 or an M16 " ?
Well, I can repeatedly shoot my foot with an M16 an have a great chance of living (just missing a foot, LOL). And I can kill myself with the .22 with a shot to the head.
There are so many variables in play here. Mice and humans are not even remotely comparable. Even individual people sometimes react very differently to certain venoms. So "how toxic" something is really depends on the circumstance. The LD50 charts are a sometimes useful research tool, but when talking about a bite, really aren't anything useful.
And actually, I have seen one Forest cobra that wasn't all that bad in a friends collection. I was over during cage cleanings, etc, and he seemed fairly relaxed. I didn't actually work with the animal myself though. I have had 3 forest cobras in the past 2 years that I can remember, and was not happy when I actually had to interact with them.
Elapids hate me. Maybe they feel neglected, as I have always favored the Crotalinae. LOL.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola.
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by Cro on April 12, 2009
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Just what is this fascination that folks have with trying to label one snake being more venomous than another?
What purpose does it serve ?
Best Regards
John Z
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by theemojohnm on April 12, 2009
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Exactly Archie !
"What is the most venomous snake?"
The one THAT IS ON YOUR HOOK! LOL.
I can see ones desire to know what venoms are effective, and exactly how they work, but the truth is, there is not an easy answer to the question "how toxic is this snake?".
Humans do not react good to any cobra venom, and that is enough to keep me from being grabbed by a Naja!
Certain components of their venom really interest me, and so I read up all I can on these. But, to ask "how toxic" or to compare species, is useless.
Take care,
-John Mendrola.
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by puffadder7 on April 12, 2009
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yes, we all know both snakes can kill you very easy, then everyone goes into all kinds of analogy, this happens every time, i aggree with everything that has been stated, yes it is a complicated awnser, but cape cobras are more toxic than a forest cobra!!! thats all she wants to know, arin
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