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RE: New green mamba article
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by pictigaster1 on August 29, 2009
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Oh well I did misunderstand.Then I agree we should be able to disagree with out personal attacks they demean us all.
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RE: New green mamba article
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by Cro on August 29, 2009
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Well, this has been an interesting thread and discussion.
The good news is that the cable guy is alive and well.
The bad news is that the commercial News folks are still capable of releasing all kinds of false information to the public.
The good news is that that Joe and the Venom 1 folks created some good, informative news out of the event, that would help educate folks and perhaps help draw attention to the need for continued funding of Venom 1.
And, it is also good that we could have a great discussion without this breaking down into personal attacks that would have had to be removed by a site administrator.
There is still a lot of debate on whether the snake was a mamba or not. And speculation will not answer that. Only finding the snake will solve that question once and for all. I hope folks will keep looking for it.
Considering this is Florida, the idea of a escaped exotic snake is not far fetched at all. It could sure happen.
This thread has probably gone as far as it needs for now. If they find the snake, then it should continue after that. But, I am worried that until the snake is found, that continuing this thread is not accomplishing much at all. All it is doing is setting the stage for personal attacks of one sort or another.
So, let's end this here. If a mamba is found, a new thread can be started.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: New green mamba article
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by FLAohHerper on August 29, 2009
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Larry,
Touche my friend on the email.
Really there is not too much more to say on this except lets just find the snake,huh?
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RE: New green mamba article
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by theemojohnm on August 30, 2009
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I agree. Interesting thread.
I have not touched this topic yet, but have been watching the whole thing boil down. Are we really this disorganized? This was a bit painful to watch. How can we as a community, be so opinionated, that we cannot present facts in and orderly fashion?
The media thrived on the "mamba bite" headline in one way or another. But, is that accurate?
I see many folks here who I have come to greatly respect with opposing opinions. IN any other circumstance I would be highly suspicious of an incident like this, but, are we ignoring the truth?
Why is it that, this far into the stories progression, and this debate, are there still uncertainties concerning specific events? Perhaps the only way to hold the community together, would be some organization greater than the scope of USARK? Or, USARK could increase in scope. With what we have today, why couldn\'t this topic be debated upon BEFORE it was made to look like an unorganized mistake on the behalf of the venomous reptile community here?
Again, I cannot decide on this event, because I have not been around to follow it as in depth as most of you. Although, as I have said, many of the folks here(on either side of the argument) opinions I respect.
I know almost for certain, that these things happen more commonly than gets media attention. The folks that treated the bite were certainly most qualified, and have certainly seen the symptoms of bite MUCH more than the average "herper". But, why was crucial treatment information given in such a distorted way? And where DID the animal come from? I still cannot see, despite some others opinions, an angry and likely startled mamba hanging around in a small enough tree (or group of trees or shrubs) long enough to be all that likely. Any size mamba would certainly have space to move about in seek of shelter. How long was the animal there before the bite took place?
Either way, why weren\'t the facts presenter clearly? Is it really stubborn onion that is so disorganizing in our community?
Its time for change... Again, an interesting topic, painful to watch.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola.
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RE: New green mamba article
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by FLherp on August 30, 2009
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John,
Some of the problem originates with the news media -they look for a story; they need the information to fit an easy to understand narrative. The media is also episodic and event driven, they are always seeking the dramatic and unusual. Once a story is reported, corrections, especially those that do not fit the narrative, may be ignored. Most reporters have no background in medicine, science, etc. and it is reflected in their reporting - they oversimplify or commit errors of omission or comission, but it really does not matter to most viewers who are likewise ignorant of the "facts". The 24-hour news cycle has not lead to better news in my opinion, it has actually exacerbated the problem.
It is incumbent on the consumer to think critically when reading/viewing the news. There are often factual errors and inconsistencies in the news - they are usually the result of the above mentioned causes. When we identify factual errors, we should do our best to correct them in a constructive way. The news is a product and as consumers of the product we have to be mindful of the problems associated with it. We may also ask the provider of the news to stick to the facts and correct errors when and where they occur. The news media should be held to a reasonable standard of journalism and accuracy in their reporting. This does not pertain to much of the current media which consist primarily of opinion. I have taken to ignoring the news for the most part, as I was more cynical than critical of the news as presented.
Critical thinking is an important and often underdeveloped skill. It requires the ability to think clearly and rationally. It is not a rote memorization of facts, but the ability to deduce consequences, think independently and reflectively. It can often challenge assumptions upon which our beliefs hinge, so can occasionally be uncomfortable. It may require that we discard our biases as new information is received. Unfortunately, for many of us we only seek confirmation of opinions and beliefs that we already hold - it makes it difficult to evaluate new information if we only see information from a single point of view. We also have an inherent bias to support our preconceived notions, this is further aggravated in this case by the ambiguity of some of the information related to the events. Such ambiguity often results in polarization as each person assimilates the information and interprets it on the basis of his already held belief; Particularly if the opinions are strongly opposed.
Initially, I was deeply skeptical of the "facts" surrounding the events in question. As more information was presented, from the "boots on the ground" so to speak, my skepticism softened a bit. I still maintain a shadow of a doubt, a reasonable doubt, but believe that there is a greater likelihood of the events occuring as described by those who were there rather than being the result of deception or error. There were some posts on this forum that contained inaccurate information that further muddied the water, but I was told early on that they were untrue so they did not enter into my deliberations. It would be nice to have 100% certainty, but I have become comfortable with some doubt and uncertainty. It seems I knew a lot more when I was younger; now it appears the more I learn, the less I know (for sure). I did take issue with the declararion that it was " a mamba, fer suure", without some of the information that could be garnered from testing the blood or finding the animal in question. I would say that there is a high index of suspicion that it was a green mamba, without better confirmatory evidence. But I am the king of qualifiers.
If a green mamba is never located, the events may still have occured as reported, we will just lack a nice conclusion to the story.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." - Voltaire
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