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Eastern Timber rattler
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by Gamalot on October 11, 2009
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I almost got it today but I think the cool temps had the snake pretty docile.
It was a very large and very fat Timber and he just caught the edge of my pant leg.
I have a bunch of questions so I can be prepared next time.
How long will it take for my local hospital to find and give me the anti venom? I am almost certain they would not have it on hand.
Will my dog survive a hit by one of these? She is a Brittany and weighs 35 pounds and it bugs me to no end how she loves messing with snakes and stuffing her face in every hole and crevice.
These guys live out back where there is an old shale pit but every now and then one roams close to the yard. They almost always give fair warning long before I get close enough so I have to respect that and I won't just kill a beautiful snake for the sake of killing or getting rid of it. I am in the NY Catskill mountains, Sullivan County.
Thanks
Gary
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by pictigaster1 on October 11, 2009
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First be more care full keep your dog away from snakes your dog might survive but timber bites are very bad indeed.Most hospitals stock the antivenom be care full.
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by BobH on October 12, 2009
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Gary, I like your attitude. Chances are that by the time you would take to get to the hospital it would be there waiting for you even if they didn't have it in stock. You can also get your dog vaccinated for snake bite, if you anticipate frequent encounters.
Bob
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by Gamalot on October 12, 2009
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Thank you both.
I am always pretty careful but never expected to find one out of his den in 50 degree weather.
I welcome the Garters and Kings that live in the hedges out front and see an occasional Hog Nosed Adar trying to act like a Cobra. They are here but I only ever saw one Copperhead in 57 years. The Timbers are few and far between unless I go looking for them in the old rock quarry.
I saw some pics of a fellow who got bit by a Timber and all I can say is they do scare me. He about lost his leg and will walk with a limp for the rest of his life. Our local hospital had no Cro Fab and probably did not have a doctor competent in snake bites to treat him.
The one that missed me was about 4 feet long and a full grown adult I never saw him until he rattled and struck a second later. He was as big around as my forearm and was digesting his last meal as I could see the lump about a quarter way down.
I will check with the hospital to find out if they have an available supply and also talk with my vet.
Again, Thanks
Gary
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by earthguy on October 12, 2009
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Gary,
I once caught an active cottonmouth in 50 degree weather on Dec. 23rd. Snakes are definitely more torpid when the weather cools, which actually may make a bite more likely. Usually the snake would crawl off when the vibrations of your footsteps got too close...but when they're cold they're less likely to move and possibly slower to rattle (mostly just personal observation, although I have collected a small sample set of data).
You are correct about the lack of expertise that most doctors have when it comes to treating snakebite (a testament to how rare this occurance actually is). Most keepers on this site have a bite protocol to give to their doctor/hospital/caregiver in the case of a mishap. This protocol includes very technical/detailed information about the treatment that the keeper will or will not accept and under which circumstances (viz. whether or not the doctor should perform a fasciotomy). If bites are really a concern for you it would not be difficult to research and put together a bite protocol for the species native to your area.
Also, due to the relative rarity of snakebite, antivenin (CroFab for most native species, as you correctly surmised) is not commonly stocked. I know the nearest vials for me are 53 miles NW in the capitol city. Fortunately most individuals would survive all but the most severe bites long enough for the anitvenin to arive.
I hope this helps. Enjoy your hikes (wish I could get out more often too.)
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by Cro on October 12, 2009
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Gary,
Good to hear that you were not bitten.
A 50 degree air temperature is usually about the point where we stop seeing timber rattlesnakes out and active.
Right now, they are still basking near den entrances, because the night time temperatures require them to seek shelter in the late afternoon and early evenings. But during the days, they will sometimes come out and bask.
This would be especially true for a snake that was trying to digest a meal, as that meal needs to be eliminated before the snake enters hibernation.
If you had one of those temperature guns, and used it to check the temperatures of the dark rocks that are found in your region, you would find that although the air temperatures might only be 50 degrees, some of those dark rocks that have been in the sun might have built up temperatures of 70 or 80 degrees. That is why the snakes like to bask on them. By early morning, those rocks have cooled back to air temperatures, however, they will continue to radiate heat for several hours after the sun goes down.
Best thing to do is wear boots and jeans over them when hiking. They do not have to be snake boots, just regular tall hiking boots will offer a lot of protection.
Like Bob said, it is great that you have a good attitude about the snakes. In the past, I spent a lot of time hiking the mountains of Greene County, near Windham and Prattsville, and it was always fun to see a timber rattlesnake up on the mountain.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by Gamalot on October 12, 2009
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Thanks John and right you are that although it was around 53 degrees, the sun was warm and I am sure the rocks were warmer.
This snake was a ways from the den area as best I can tell but very close to where the chipmunks and red squirrels have their holes. I suspect that is what the Timbers eat. I have a spot there where I toss brush and garden debris and that is what I was doing.
I have never seen a Timber in the yard and I bet they are smart enough to smell the presence of the dog who has an invisible fence boundary and can't go to the brush pile.
Every time I have seen them in the past they were completely respectful and gave plenty of warning. This guy brown shorted me but I honestly believe he did not intend to get me because he sure could have. He hit my pants cuff but it was not a full strike with wide open mouth. More like fair warning and boy was he ready for another and very angry looking.
BTW, An absolutely gorgeous snake and much prettier than any pictures we have here on the site. By the time I got back with the camera he was gone and probably just went in to the brush pile.
We like our critters here!
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Wildlife/DSCN1325.jpg[/IMG]
Gary
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by JSargent on October 12, 2009
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also being in NY, timbers are a protected species...this often doesn't matter to people when it comes to a dangerous animal, but i am glad you are also an animal lover....the timber is a very dangerous snake if you are bitten with a full does, possibly fatal...i would definatly talk with your local hospitals, as 911 may not know which hospitals have antivenom....a bite to your dog could also be fatal, so keeping him on a leash while in timber territory would be a wise decision....as stated by you, they typically don't come into the yard and this is most likely due to the predatory urine from your dog...we use predatory urines in our snake repellant at work...snakes won't typically hang out where they feel threatened..... glad it was just a close call.....
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by Gamalot on October 12, 2009
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Yes, In NY the Timber is a protected species but this sadly does not sway folks from killing them when ever they see one. Other snakes are also targeted and it is sad how many King snakes or Milk snakes die because of mistaken ID. Seems to me everyone I know has killed at least one Copperhead a year around their yard and the truth is I have seen one real CH in 57 years of being here.
Timber territory is a rather broad area. I do my best to keep the Brittany away from the old quarries but she is a bird dog and loves her Partridge hunts and the Timbers can be found just about anywhere. Good to hear my assumption was close to right as to why they don't come in the yard. We have old shale pits on both sides out back and just about 100 yards from the yard.
The pictures I saw of the guys leg was enough to scare the bejeasus out of me and a buddy told me it took the doctors 7 hours to get the Anti Venom to him and they all doubted it was a Timber bite at all until it was too late. Wonder what part of loud rattles on the tail, fang holes and being in NY does not add up to Timber for them? He has over $100,000 in doctors bills and half his calf muscle is gone for ever.
I don't have a clue how expensive the Cro fab is, how much is needed or if it has an expiration date but my attitude is get it and get it quick because we can't buy new legs, feet or hands.
Gary
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RE: Eastern Timber rattler
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by earthguy on October 12, 2009
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Approximately $3,000 a vial, and I think the shelf life is just a couple of years. The number of vials that you would need depends on the severity of the bite. I think that there was a bite here in SC (defintely a rattlesnake, though probably an EDB) where a little girl required 30 vials.
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