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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by FSB on February 7, 2010
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Great- another monocled. They're getting to be like the ball pythons of cobradom, except ball pythons can't kill you, and ball pythons don't cause headlines and widespread panic when they escape. I'm with tj - it's time to start cracking down on unscrupulous dealers who sell these things to people who shouldn't have them. I've never been in the snake-selling business, but I'm sure I could tell right quick if someone had the knowledge or experience to buy a venomous snake, or not. I have no use for these people who only see reptiles as a way to turn a buck. They don't do the reptiles any good, they don't do the public any good and they don't do us any good. I never buy animals from these types of people - I can always find what I want from other herpetoculturalists who know and care about what they're doing and have much better animals anyway. Reading The Lizard King just got me steamed about the whole racket... people who have no real interest or passion for reptiles and just use them to get a nice truck, a house in a gated community and a sailboat. I'm about making money for reptiles, not off of them. They don't owe me a thing. If someone were to get killed as the result of a dealer selling a snake to an obviously unqualified buyer, the dealer should be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by tigers9 on February 7, 2010
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My reply is mostly to buzztail post. Yes, Utah people always invade border Nevada towns to buy booze, cheaper in Nevada, easily available 24/7, and you don’t need to join some Utah bar "alcoholics not anonymous” club to drink. For those of u now familiar with Utah laws, OMG, , like we go snow ski there and we have to buy 30+ dollars or so membership in some alcoholics club in a restaurant so we can be served beer, so silly....
We had an interesting situation here in Pahrump, Nye county, Nevada few years ago, Short story: most fireworks are legal here, but we r next to socialist republic of California where , if it is fun, it is illegal, so Californians come here to buy fireworks, legal here, illegal where they live.
Nye county sheriff response to the pressure ‘to do something about the horrible fireworks sales’ was ,that it is not his or NV stores business or right, or jurisdiction, to enforce California laws, that would be stepping on other people toes, not to mention illegal to enforce others states laws here.
Z
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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by Chance on February 8, 2010
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Unfortunately it isn't just unscrupulous dealers who are responsible for selling venomous snakes to people who don't need them. Even well respected members of this 'community' sometimes find the lure of the allmighty dollar to outweigh common sense. So let's not just blame the big dealers for this mess.
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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by earthguy on February 8, 2010
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Sales that cross state lines fall under Federal jurisdicion (the Commerse Clause). I don't think that this community necessrily wants the Federal Government involved in the decision of what can be sold to whom, so it would behoove us to do a little self policing.
On a related note, I noted a vendor at the last Columbia show on several occasions refused to sell a snake (C. adamanteus) to residents of NC due to legalities of keeping that species there. Good on him.
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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by Cro on February 8, 2010
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Josh, that was good of that dealer to check where folks lived before he sold to them.
Makes me wonder just how many folks coming to reptile shows even know what is legal or illegal to own in their states ?
I bet a lot of them do not even know that certain snakes are prohibited. They see something for sale at a show, and assume it must be legal, if it is for sale.
And, that leads to the question, just how far does a vendor need to go before he makes a sale. Is it fair to expect a dealer to know the state and local reptile laws in every state ?
Lets say someone comes to a show from a town that has venomous snake restrictions, but from a state that mostly does not have restrictions. Would a vendor know that ? Most likely not.
For the most part, vendors at shows do care about who they sell to, and if the sale is legal.
However, there are a few who look at snakes only as products to make money from, and do not care what happens to the animal, or, who they sell it to, just as long as they make money.
It would seem that trying to keep those folks from the shows would fall under the show promoters to set up rules that vendors need to follow.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: NJ-Deadly cobra found in Union City apartment
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by FSB on February 8, 2010
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I want to make clear that I am not condemning dealers as a whole - only the unscrupulous ones that I hope [as a rule] are only a minority, and should be as great a concern, if not moreso, to reputable dealers, since they tend to give the whole business a bad name. There are ads in the classifieds here all the time that say "No sales to minors or to states where venomous are illegal - know your laws," or something to that effect, which is as it should be. Of course I know and have met many very conscientous breeders/dealers who obviously take great care with [and of] their animals and want to see them placed with caring, appreciative owners. On a tour of any reptile expo, I find it pretty easy to tell who is who by what they have on their tables, how it's set up, displayed and packaged, and what they have to say about it. It isn't just sales to people who live in "illegal" states that bother me - it's sales [or attempts to sell] to people who are obviously just not qualified to own a dangerously venomous reptile [no matter where they live] - and if it's obvious to me, it should be to anyone who makes a living dealing in reptiles too. Actually, I think it IS obvious to them - it has to be - but such dealers are evidently so intent on making a sale that they just don't care. The possibly dire consequences of some person who has only kept carpet pythons or iguanas suddenly heading back to their apartment building with a monocled in a critter container are just too serious to be taken lightly.
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