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Snakebite cost
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by Phobos on March 4, 2010
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Many times people don't realize keeping venomous snakes have a huge potiental cost that's hidden, till your bitten. In response to my comment that I don't keep many domestic snakes in my collection because CroFab is so freaken expensive and you'll typically need 10-20 vials for a minor envenoming. Here's one typical domestic bite Crotalus cerastes that someone posted on my Youtube channel.
"amen on the crofab- C.cerastes bite, 13 vials, $110k.
Viperkeeper speaks the truth."
Yes, that's $110,000 for just a nip from a Sidewinder...
Al
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by BGF on March 4, 2010
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I'd love to see a cost breakdown of
- treatment with CroFab
- treatment with the former Wyeth product
- treatment with the Mexican antivenom
CroFab was supposed to be the wonderdrug. So the fact that it costs dramatically more per ampoule was supposed to be off-set by needing fewer ampoules and getting the patient out quicker. Instead, it is cleared from the body much faster than the other antivenom types, due to its highly processed form into the smallest sized fragments. This should not have been a suprise, Cassian Bonn did some very elegant work with scorpion antivenom showing exactly that.... years before. But this was blithely ignored. Soooooooo CroFab treated patients immediately started having bleeding problems after being sent home apparently with the venom neutralised. But the venom in the deep tissue was never met by the antivenom, and once this venom went back into circulation, the blood crashed again. Thus, patients have to instead spend days in the hospital getting continuous infusions of CroFab. Requiring lots of vials and massive hospital costs. Quite the debacle.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by Phobos on March 4, 2010
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Yes, wonderful mess huh Bryan. I had a moderately severe envenoming by C. horridus in 1974. Wyeth Crotalid A/V was the gold standard at $50/ vial...I had 6 to neutralize the bite. The bonus with this serum is it worked very well on Bothrop too since they used B. atrox venom in the mix too.
Bryan, do think using "Standardized Venom" from captive animals to make A/V is a flawed concept? Take CroFab as an example without dealing with the purification issues you've already discussed.
We know from your writings as well as Wolgangs et al. Plus Sean Bush's clinical experiences with C. helleri that even within the same species over a geographical region will have variation (some significant)in venom composition. Thus causing A/V's produced using "standardized venom" to insufficiently cover all of the different venoms found in the wild where the serum is used? Does it make sense to have a pool of "wild type" thrown into the mix of venoms used for innoculation to cover these regional variations.
Cheers!
Al
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by AquaHerp on March 4, 2010
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Al-
When we send out for antivenom needs we nornally pool the venoms because of that very fact. We see variations in lots of snake species..helleri, lepidus, horridus, tener are but a few.
Bryan- I once took 43 vials of the Wyeth for a horridus bite. CroFab, 18 was the highest, but the cost far exceeded the Equine version. As well, last treeament with CroFab had me in that exact situation that you described (recurrance).
DH
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by Phobos on March 4, 2010
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Geeze Doug...That's a lot of Horse serum...did you get a bail of hay with that...
How big was that Horridus? Did they continue the serum because they didn't achieve control? Julian White was discussing using too much serum to treat some of the elapids he deals with... Was the second bite treated with CroFab a Horridus also?
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by LarryDFishel on March 4, 2010
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>>"amen on the crofab- C.cerastes bite, 13 vials, $110k.
>>Viperkeeper speaks the truth."
>>Yes, that's $110,000 for just a nip from a Sidewinder...
However, note that even if he got royally screwed on the AV by the hospital (say $3,000 a vial which I've heard of) that's still $70,000 for everything else.
In other words ANY venomous bite can be financially catastrophic.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by AquaHerp on March 4, 2010
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Al-
My horridus bite was a nasty one. I was a few miles back in the forest so I sufficiently pumped the venom all throughout by the time i hit the emegency room many hours later.
The other bite mentioned was a C. atrox.
DH
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