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RE: Snakebite cost
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by venominme on August 14, 2010
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One ideal way of treating snake bite would be a novel combination where your own blood could be used. Take a specific quantity, just like donating blood, and cleave the IgG just as you do the sheep blood. In this case, you would be saving the stick part of the Y fragment, not the antigen binding tips of the Y. Then combine it with antigen binding fragments that have been cleaved from the horse or sheep (Fab) and get them to recombine back into the whole IgG molecule. You’d have a whole IgG that does not readily pass through the system, and your own IgG stems to prevent allergic reaction. Thank you, thank you, send royalty checks to charity.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by Cro on August 14, 2010
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Sounds like an interesting idea Norman.
Will be interesting to hear from others about that possibility.
Has anything like that ever been done with other toxins ?
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by venominme on August 14, 2010
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I imagine a machine like the paint department at Home Depot, where they squirt a few drops of the right color combination, mix it up, and produce any color paint right on the spot. You go in for snake bite treatment, they dial up the epitope you need, run your blood through the mixer and send you to recovery. Eventually we’ll have that cool gizmo Dr. McCoy had on Star Trek, but you gotta start somewhere.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by FLherp on August 28, 2010
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The original thimerosal is used as a preservative in the manufacturing process and is carried over into the
final product.
From Precautions general:
"CroFab contains mercury in the form of ethyl mercury from thimerosal. The final product contains up to 104.5 mcg or approximately o.11 mg mercury per vial, which amounts to more than 1.9 mg of mercury per dose (based on the maximum dose of 18 vials studied in the clinical trials of CroFab). While there are no definitive data on the toxicity of ethyl mercury, literature suggests that information related to methyl mercury toxicity may be applicable."
High dose and acute exposure to methyl mercury have been associated with neurological and renal toxicity. Developing fetuses are at most risk for toxicity (as are younger children. CroFab is an FDA Pregnancy Category C drug. Methyl mercury is most often introduced via the consumption of fish. Much of the literature discusses the exposure to elemental mercury as a vapor and there are published exposure limits (TWA are listed in mg/m ^3). We are all chronically exposed to mercury in as a vapor; Outdoor air in urban areas is somewhere between 10 to 20 ng/m^3, and water sources have 5 ng/l (5 ppt or parts per trillion) and are still considered safe to drink. Depending on the number of fillings (mercury amlagam type) you might have, there are 3 to 17 mcg of mercury released into your body each day.
Ethyl mercury is cleared from the body (and brain) significantly faster than methyl mercury (Ethyl mercury has a half-life in the blood of about 14 days or so). The higher acute dose is acceptable, I would not make receiving antivenom containing thimerosol a habit.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by FlaSnakeHunter on August 29, 2010
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Great topic, great viewpoints. Question... if you have imported your own A/V for exotic species, what will be the barriers to having it administered in the hospital ?? I would think that the hospital would refuse to administer any drug which has not been acquired by that hospital under chain of command protocols ??
Thanks,
Marty
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by venominme on August 29, 2010
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You will never get a doctor at the hospital to use your antivenom. You must have a doctor that you call, that you use, who sees you and knows you and you have worked out your protocol in advance, or forget it. It is a waste of your money. If you have your own snake bite doctor you can work it out in advance with him. You have to have that guy. If you are out of your normal area or he is unavailable, he is the guy the doctor in the ER will be able to consult by phone until he can either get there or take some responsibility for your treatment. One doctor talking to another is your best bet. No doctor will listen to you or use your antivenom when you come in off the street, or stretcher.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by FLherp on August 29, 2010
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This is why it is important to establish protocols and develop relationships with the nearest hospital. Dropping in unannounced (with a bite) leads to a lot of head scratching and internet searches. Better to have thorough and appropriate protocols with list of appropriate antivenoms presented to the hospital staff in case a bite occurs, than arriving at the ER with a bitten extremity and a beer cooler full of non-FDA approved medications. It is also important to maintain the hospital relationship as staff turn over can be high. With a few exceptions, most people (this includes doctors, nurses, paramedics, etc.) look upon our hobby as a bit kooky.
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