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RE: Snakebite cost
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by Cro on August 11, 2010
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The biggest problem, is that someone who has been bitten by a venomous snake in this country often does not have much of a choice of what hospital he is taken to, especially if he is out in the field somewhere.
One hospital might charge $900.00 a vial for CroFab, and another greedy hospital might charge $5,000.00 a vial, or even $10,000.00 a vial.
The whole system is corrupt, from the hospitals, to the insurance companies, and many of the doctors themselves, along with the FDA, and the U.S. Government.
At one time, the National Poison Control Centers were working to create National Antivenin Banks in many states. That would have stabilized the price for Antivenin somewhat. Not sure what ever happened to that initiative though. Have not heard much about it for a couple of years now.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by CanadianSnakeMan on August 11, 2010
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John -
I couldn't agree more. I'm not trying to sound 'preachy' on the whole socialized medicine thing, but when you introduce capitalism into a service that's better off in the public realm, you get corruption and inefficiency. Between the insurance companies and the hospitals all trying to make a buck the guy at the bottom gets screwed and the system isn't sustainable.
If I'm not mistaken, CroFab is just a purified sheep serum with reduced antigenic properties. I don't see how they justify charging that much money for one vial.
I would guess that the National Antivenin Banks are probably too costly with relatively too few users to be rushed into existence. Are the US poison control centres privatized or do they fall under government control?
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by venominme on August 11, 2010
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The Wyeth coral snake antivenom is a perfect example of a packaged approved product given an arbitrary expiration date, which requires throwing away and restocking perfectly good medicine when it “expires”. The last batch expired and they extended the expiration date, which is the FDA saying “the expiration date doesn’t mean anything, it’s still perfectly good”. Then they do it again and again. It was good anyways, with the expiration date they stuck on it in the first place. The brand new stuff will still be good seven years after it expires too. This doubles and triples the costs to an antivenom bank or any institution that stocks antivenom. For absolutely no reason. The FDA says so.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by CanadianSnakeMan on August 11, 2010
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For some medications, I'm sure you're right. Everything has a different rate of decay and some stuff is good for quite a long time. I don't think I've ever seen an expiration date longer than 3 yrs.
Other stuff (tetracycline for example) can get VERY toxic after its expiration date.
Is it just that the FDA is too lazy or underfunded to carry out proper studies on how long these meds can be stored, or are they in cahoots with the pharmaceutical companies so they can keep making money reselling meds after they 'expire'?
I think that's a question worth asking.
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by agkistrodude on August 12, 2010
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Luke, actually, NOT having capitalism is the problem with CroFab. With capitalism, there would be several different companies producing it, competing for market share, and driving the price down. Without capitalism, there's no competition, they can charge what they want. Same with the hospital. While there may be other hospitals around, in an emergency situation, there usually is no choice, you go where they take you. No capitalism, no competition, no price reduction. Take care, Marty
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by CanadianSnakeMan on August 12, 2010
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Marty,
Then how do you explain the fact that in a profit-driven health care system, everything costs so much more than in other systems? With the vast expense and expertise that goes into running a pharmaceutical company, it stands to reason that only the established companies can be competative, squashing out all newcomers. Then factor in globalization and companies absorbing each other and you have a capitalist system with no competition - the big rats on top eat all the cheeze.
A socialized helath care program can run at a loss and doesn't have to plan for profit in its operating costs. It works everywhere else in the industrialized world.
Again, I dont mean to sound preachy and I respect everyone's right to their beliefs and opinions, but all my life I've been taken vrey good care of by my health care system and I konw that if I ever suffer a bite or any other seroius injury or disease that I won't be financially destroyed or turned down because I can't pay - I guess I just don't know any other way and I don't understand why some people dislike such a system.
Just my humble opinion. I hope that anyone here who suffers a bite will have it looked after quickly and properly without bankrupting you - regardless of what system you're in!
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by nietzsche on August 12, 2010
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Hi Luke,
I don't think you are preaching, just reasoning from your own experience. On the other side of the coin, I have friends that lived in Romania when it was still under the old USSR. Needless to say the medicine was socialized. They had problems not only with their health care, such as getting anesthetic for procedures in some cases, but also with a lack of M.D's. A lot of bright students did not want to bust their hump in med school, when they could make as much money as an auto mechanic with a lot less work. That is one consequence of keeping the price down. You are not offering the same incentives. As far as corruption goes, if there is a drachma to be made there will be corruption no matter who is in charge. Just looking at it from another angle, and not dissing you in any shape or form. I have seen your posts on other forums and you seem like a conscientious, thoughtful person. I just hesitate to say that any one ideology is a panacea for all problems. I know people that are happy with private health coverage, and others that happy government healthcare.
Kelly
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by CanadianSnakeMan on August 12, 2010
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Kelly-
Don't worry, I don't feel like you're dissing me in any way! you're right, there's more than one way to look at any problem. However, I think the example of Romania under the USSR is not the best way to hilight a socialized system that works! There are lots of other examples (most of Europe, Australia, Canada) where that type of health system works really well for people.
My father was a neurosurgeon back in the day (before he retired). He turned down a much higher paying job as a professor at Jons Hopkins in order to work at the University of Toronto because he didn't want to lose his ideology of helping people for an ideology of profit - not that he was poor here, just that he was less rich than if he'd worked down there. That's something that has stuck with me.
In 2007 I came down with a severely life-threatening heart condition. I was on the operating table in less than a week. After a few months and 2 heart surgeries I am now fully recovered and back to full duty in the army. The standard of care was excellant and I didn't have to worry about being dropped by insurance or having to pre-approve any of my procedures.
I'm just saying this so others on this forum understand where I'm coming from before I get lynched for questioning capitalist healthcare! :P
Like I said, there are lots of ways to go about fixing a problem and I don't pretend to have all the answers.
I'd hate to try and get insurance in the US because of my pre-existing heart condition though!
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by agkistrodude on August 13, 2010
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Luke, because in the medical field, capitalism is pretty much gone completely. When was the last time you were in an ambulance and sat there making phone calls to all of the area hospitals to see which one would be cheapest? Or even a family doctor? Or a dentist? In general, people don't care who charges what, because they know that they won't have to pay for it. All they have to cover is their deductible and the insurance pays the rest. They just look at the bill and say, I can't believe how much this costs! Thank God I have insurance! Instead of shopping doctors, they shop insurance companies to see who will give them the most coverage for the cheapest out of pocket cost. Now if all people started calling around to doctors asking what they charge for office visits, and everyone started seeing the doctors who had the cheapest price, the prices for office visits would drop as the doctors competed for patients. As long as there are insurance companies footing the bills, you can't say capitalism doesn't work by looking at the medical field. If insurance companies went away tomorrow, and people had to start paying their own med bills, capitalism would then come into play, as people would shop around for the best prices. (with the exception of ER care of course, there you really can't shop)The heath care in the United States is the best in the world. It doesn't need fixing. Costs for the health care are what needs fixing. Take care, Marty
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RE: Snakebite cost
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by CanadianSnakeMan on August 13, 2010
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Marty-
I understand your points and they're valid. However, I respectfully disagree with you about the benefits of insurance companies. I don't trust a company with administrating my health care when they have a vested interest in cutting their own costs by denying their clients the care they need (or not accepting clients because they're too high of a risk). And what about the people who can't afford insurance? Without an all-inclusive government plan that operates outside the umbrella of the private system who takes care of them?
And statistically, the US doesn't have the best health care system in the world (life expectancy etc). It's also the most expensive, spending twice as much or more per capita than any other industrialized country. I'm not saying this to annoy anyone or to be antagonistic, but the facts are out there if anyone wants to look them up at the World Health Organization(http://www.who.int/countries/en/).
I lived in the US for a bit and I got great health care (but it cost a fortune). If I couldn't have paid, I don't know what I would have received.
I think this topic has deviated from 'costs of snakebite care' into a philosophical debate over private versus public healthcare. That's my fault, sorry :P
It's just something I truly believe in because I've seen it work. This will be my last post about the healthcare debate, I promise!
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