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Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by Ptk on April 21, 2010
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We are keeping a friends dog (15lb JRT) that was bitten by a copperhead over a year ago. Bitten on the left cheek just below the eye. Dog went to the vet was treated for infections/pain and supportive therapy (kidney, etc). No anti-venin was used. When they came over to drop the dog off I notice a nice hole in the cheek with what appeared as necrosis around the surrounding tissue. They handed me some antibiotics and said that it was the snake bite and occasionally the symptoms (swelling) reoccur and the bite site opens, etc.
I was a little surprised that reoccurring symptoms would happen that long post bite and be that severe. Is this more likely the body being exposed to a similar antigen or confusing one for snake venom and having some sort of autoimmune response? Is it possible for trace amounts of venom to still be present and when the dogs immune system becomes weak from other reasons the symptoms reoccur? or that the initial venom yield was so mild the dogs immune system never had a chance to build the proper antibodies (like those who have chicken pox more than once). Could it even be a possible staff infection reoccurring at the bite site?
Our friends said when it is healed that it is closed and hair grows back and everything appears normal. Second time since the original bite it has happened. The dog has a history of poor health and allergies to a number of things (food, sprays, etc.) may or may not be related.
Thoughts? Theories?
Thanks PTK
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by Ptk on April 21, 2010
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Sorry for the triple post the first two said it had failed. Site admins please feel free to delete the other two thanks!
Sorry
PTK
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by Cro on April 21, 2010
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Patrick
No problem with the triple posts, I fixed that.
Seems to have happened to a couple other folks also.
Could be related to the site being moved to new servers a couple of days ago.
Reoccurring symptoms from snake bites in humans are well known. I do not think that trace amounts of venom still being present are the issue. It is more likely some sort of "memory" happens within the autoimmune system, and that something can "trigger" an immune response.
Years ago, while scuba diving, I was stung by fire coral on my hands, and they swelled and became inflamed and very painful. After a week or so, they seemed to heal. However, my hands would swell up and itch and burn, just like the original symptoms about once or twice a year. And that happened year after year for about a 10 year period. Had to be some sort of memory in the immune system causing that to happen. Would be interesting to know just what triggered the remembered response. Could have been exposure to an confused outside aggravate, or, perhaps a weak immune system from a virus, etc.
I know there are some allergens out there that I am border-line allergic to. Like Blue Crabs. I love cooking them, but, they trigger a mild allergic reaction. I wonder if exposure to something like a food allergen could trigger an old immune response to something like the fire coral exposure ?
Very interesting topic.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by MikeB on April 21, 2010
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The same thing will happen with frostbite -- recurrent pain and swelling for years when exposed to temperature changes. I would suspect the dog had some damage to the tissue that made it susceptible to repeated infections.
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by lanceheads on April 21, 2010
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Same thing with "phantom pain" on humans regarding a bite. It happens to me and others I know.
Randal Berry
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by pictigaster1 on April 21, 2010
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Oh so true those phantoms suck .Also phantom finger syndrome.I reach out and grab with a finger that is gone.drops to floor LOL.aLSO i HAD BUMPS THAT WOULD COME UP FOR A LONG TIME AFTER ATROX BITE.These were deep and painful then just as fast they would be gone.I think they were an allergic reaction from being in close proximity to another atrox.One more at 20 my hand became stiff from a copperhead bite.I could not move a couple of fingers at all.I should not of kept collecting as my hand was not fit.I was flipping tin and was hit by an unseen atrox on that hand with in a month I had full use of my hand again.After the swelling went down.Do not flip tin with your hand.
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by Ptk on April 22, 2010
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Thanks for sharing. I really hate to think that every bee sting, ant bite, poison ivy, mosquito bite, etc could potentially flair up again but the human body is a strange thing.
Red Rock Biologics has had a Canine Rattlesnake vaccine on the market for a few years now. I wonder if there would be any positive benefit for a dog with reoccurring symptoms to have the vaccine. I know its designed as a preliminary counter measure but antibodies are antibodies right?? Could this eliminate or reduce reoccurring symptoms?
Cheers!
PTK
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RE: Reoccuring bite symptoms
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by pictigaster1 on April 22, 2010
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From what I understand the product is not that great.But any product that may help save a life is a positive .I do not think it will help with this tho.Most long term after reoccureing symptoms would be related to psyco symatic or allerc\gic reaction.Or as in your dog that you have spoke of a bacteria infection.A bacteria infection is to me what you are discribing and anti biotics should help.
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