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working with venomous without shoes on
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by ChunkHead on September 29, 2010
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There is a light discussion about the video that was posted showing 2 herpers assist feeding young rattlesnakes.
My contention is that working with venomous snakes without shoes on is not a good idea (one of the gentlemen is shoeless), as some species are prone to running, and some individuals of normally placid species may do the same. Once they hit the floor there is a potential for bites. This exact thing happened to me 3 years ago with a CB yearling Southern copperhead.
One minute into the video the small rattlesnake slides off the foam and crawls towards the edge of the table as the shoeless gentleman walks by. Cobras, Hundred Pacers (D. acutus)copperheads and cantils sometimes go berserk and can easily hit the floor and bite a naked foot.
The counterargument is that if the snake is near your feet you are doing something wrong. Anyone else care to weigh in?
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by TheFifthDay on September 29, 2010
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I personally think that the risk is too high when not wearing shoes. All it takes is one time for that normally calm snake to fly out, end up on the floor, and tag you.
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by pictigaster1 on September 29, 2010
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Idiots imo just looking for publicity on a grander scale with out any thought of the community as a whole.
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by theemojohnm on September 29, 2010
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There is no counter-argument, at least not any valid one.. We cannot control how they move.. I don't really agree with flip-flops, either, but see many herpers wear them.. I think the main issue with that video, is that it is posted on a public site, and others (youngs kid, perhaps) are seeing those practices, and may try to duplicate them.
Sure, I am sure in some instances, I may not have had shoes on when working venomous snakes. Although, any time I conciously intend to work an animal, and it is planned, I makes sure to have my shoes on.. Some snakes don't stay on a hook for more than a few secconds (many Sisitrurus, etc..). My shoes (even better, my boots) go on before I even enter the herp building. The fact that this was a public video, makes it a tad bit worse..
Not to mention that the video was a bit pointless.. Not sure what the point of posting it was.. The was no educational narration, and to the non-snake people, and anti-venomous, animal rights groups, probably just seems inhumane. (Of course, we, educated reptile folk know that sometimes, it must be done.)
Wearing shoes is a good idea; working any venomous animal without them, is not..
Take Care,
-J. Mendrola
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by Buzztail1 on September 29, 2010
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This "light conversation" actually happened a couple of years ago as a result of a Snake Wranglers episode in which the snake wrangler was road cruising barefooted. I believe he was catching Crotalus scutulatus.
I believe that there are instances when working venomous barefooted may be an acceptable situation. That said, I do not see myself ever being in such a situation. I am a firm believer in using all of the safety equipment and preparation possible to make the unexpected a survivable event.
Rattlesnakes, in general, are fairly predictable and relatively easy to maneuver. Still, there are an awful lot of people in this hobby with damaged fingers, hands, and yes, even feet, who were unprepared for an unexpected odd behavior. You don't get a second chance to be too careful.
I thought the video was pretty good at showing what it was intended to show and the barefoot thing is minor in comparison to the dangers of force-feeding small rattlesnakes.
Just my own personal views.
R/
Karl
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by Cro on September 29, 2010
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Yes, it is a good and informative video.
No doubt about that.
Should shoes have been worn while making the video? Yes, they should have been worn, just to prevent a thread like this appearing, and to make a good example for the sake of young herpers safety.
We all know the Florida folk all like the bare feet, flip flops, and sandals. And, we even know some folks who work at venom extraction labs who work barefoot most of the time. What is interesting, is those folks do not let the folks who work for them run around barefoot.
Now days, if you are going to produce a film for public consumption, it is probably best to make sure that what is shown is "politically correct" so that it will not be criticized by the animal rights folks, or, other folks who want to portray venomous snake keepers as reckless or dangerous individuals.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by LarryDFishel on September 30, 2010
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Hmmm... I agree with Karl that not wearing shoes in this situation is probably less dangerous than the force feeding, but I still wouldn't do it without.
On the other hand, I tend to wear sneakers, usually with cloth or even mesh sections (South Florida). I think someone could make just as reasonable of an argument that I'm being reckless by wearing those instead of my boots just to be more comfortable...
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by ChunkHead on September 30, 2010
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Not wearing shoes while working with venomous reptiles is akin to not wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle: it's your prerogative, but why would you risk it?
Three years ago I got up in the middle of a movie to sex some snakes before an upcoming show. I was shoeless (which I never do), and one of the yearling Southern copperheads shot out of the rubbermaid, hit the edge of the table, and 20 minutes later I was off to the hospital. I don't want this to happen to others. I am still paying that hospital bill.
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by SwampY on September 30, 2010
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Well, since I am the idiot in the video who, as you say, is looking for publicity on a grander scale I will respond.
I stand by my opinion that I don't need shoes to perform that task any more than I need gloves, leggings, a face mask or a scuba tank.
The purpose of the hook is to keep the snake out of strike range of your meaty parts. If the snake is close enough to bite your foot, you are not doing something right.
Let's say the diamondbacks were 4 feet instead of a foot long. Would shoes do a bit of good then? If you are going to wear stove pipe on your legs to road cruise that's fine. But IMHO there is not much difference between bare feet and nikes.
As far as my being an idiot looking for attention, I believe I go above and beyond when it comes to safety. I don't free-handle hots at all. The only time I ever pin snakes is to do that feeding procedure. I'm definitely not Austin Stephens or Croc Hunter, nor do I want to be. I do however have the fact that I served as vice president of this society for a number of years, wrote articles about safe handling for the newsletter, and have a couple of letters of recommendation from senior members of this group to get my FL permits
Could I have been bitten on the foot that day? there is an infinitesimal chance, yes, but do you wear a shark suit every time you walk in the surf? There was a LOT higher chance of me being bitten on the finger and I don't hear you screaming "where's your gloves you idiot???"
Chad
I might also add that in my life I've handled everything from mambas to pigmys, and I remain bite free without the benefit of snake proof socks.
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RE: working with venomous without shoes on
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by blainblain on October 1, 2010
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Well..you know, any time you post some really good stuff on here, you are very libel to get roasted a little. I reaally liked the vido. The only thought I had was the handle that was used to pin the baby EDB was prety big. I would have used something thinner, just to be able to do the visual on the neck when I'm slipping my fingers up to that jaw. The shoeless thing never occurred to me.
And I liked to see picaster1 in-put. Dr. Archie Bottoms. He was severely injured in a scaffole collasp while he was laying brick for Texas Tech University. Although Archie kind of wrote the Vidoe off as a stunt, we did not realize, or know that it was Chad Mintor that put it together. Swampy is the real deal. He knows what he's doing and he knows when a snake should be fed like that.
From New York City Chad... Yankee Land!
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