Pine snakes and rattlesnakes - Experts Forum at VenomousReptiles.org

Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by snakeguy101 on October 23, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I have a relatively large enclosure and I am trying to free up another so I was wondering if I could move 2 3' rattlesnakes into the cage with my 6' southern pine. The snakes would be separated for feedings of course and there are more than enough hide spots in the enclosure to allow for each snake to have its own space (not to mention a thick layer of substrate that is often used by the snakes to burrow). I know some of you are against mixing species but I have been doing a lot of research on this lately and I can do it safely. What I really want to know is: A) has anyone here done this before? I have seen it many times at various zoos (including the one I worked at)? B) does anyone know how venom affects a pine snake if it were to be bit? C) is there any record of a pine snake eating another snake or a rattlesnake eating another snake? Thanks for your input.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by Peter84Jenkins on October 23, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I do not see a reference to pine snakes preying on other snakes in any of my books(Citing mostly consumption of warm blooded prey). Since pines do not regularly feed on snakes, or venomous in particular, I can't believe they have evolved immunities to venomous bites. (just an educated guess) One problem I would think about is stress caused by the presence of other large predators in so close a quarters. This may cause some to quit feeding. Obviously if you see any stress related behavior then you will know. Oh, what specie of rattlesnake?

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by theemojohnm on October 23, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I agree.. Seeing as pines are going to be more active than the rattlers, I think stress would be your biggest issue.. What size enclosure are we talking about? "Relatively large" is a bit vague.. I run a few mixed-species display enclosures, but they take a bit of trial-and-error, to get them functioning smoothly, sometimes.. Take Care, -John Mendrola

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by snakeguy101 on October 24, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
It is a 4 x 3 x 2'tall enclosure and The rattlesnakes are an EDB and a Canebrake. I think I am going to add some visual barriers and more cage furniture to give each snake a chance to escape from the others. If I notice any stress I will certainly separate them again. Thanks for your help.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by Peter84Jenkins on October 24, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
EDBs and pines will hole up together in their natural habitats, so I am sure that will work. EDBs have also been shown to have fairly well overlapping populations, again another advantage. Maybe add a good thick bed of substratum since the pine snake is semi-fossorial. Hope it works out.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by CrotalusAdamanteus on October 25, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I agree with everything said above. The only issue is going to be stress mainly on the Adamanteus (as they are very delicate to stress, I learned the hard way). However, given that Pines, EDBs, and Canes do co-exist together naturally, then it should work. Just keep a close eye on the Yellow Diamonds and good luck!!

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by snakeguy101 on October 26, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
Okay, they are in together now. I am keeping an eye on them and everyone seems to be doing fine.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by SerpenXotics on October 28, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
Riverbanks zoo and garden in Columbia SC keeps a 5' N.pine a Canebrake and a eastern all in one enclosure.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by Rob_Carmichael on October 28, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I personally think that size of cage is WAY TOO small for three large snakes. I only see something bad happening in time but that's just me. If it was a cage that was 12 feet x 3 feet x 3 feet it would be possible but that's a lot of snakes in a cage that is only 4 x 3. Just my .02.

RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes	Reply
by theemojohnm on October 28, 2010	Mail this to a friend!
I agree with Rob regarding cage size, which is why I think that the crotes are going to wind up excessively stressed by an active pine.. These are a common group of species for mixed-species zoo enclosures, but the zoo enclosures are going to be much bigger. If the animals had more room to spread out, and get away from each other, I don't think stress would be nearly as big an issue. Instead of trying to 'free up another enclosure', why not separate them, and not obtain a new acquisition, until you can arrange for more caging..? My .02.. Take Care, -John Mendrola

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