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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by Nakita on November 19, 2010
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Jared,
What permit are you referring to for Horridus? It is my understanding that a current hunting/fishing license is all that is needed for the 5 specimen limit.
I've checked this with Fish and Game so am quite curious if you were told something I was not.
Thanks in advance.
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by CHRIS on November 19, 2010
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It is a shame that there is such a rivalry between the private sector, and the institutions. One is no better than the other. There is positives and negatives on both sides. I have been lucky to be involved in the study of Herpetology for a number of years. During this time I have seen some really nice collections in both private sector, and zoos.On the other hand I have seen neglect and abuse at a large scale on both sides. The private sector will always be a target, and the zoos in most cases will get a pass.With declineing numbers of snakes in many areas on many occasions is blamed on over collecting for the pet trade.Large series of snakes are collected by institutions only to be preserved,many animals from the same locality, where there is few animals and the chance of very low genetic devirsity. This is totaly unacceptable.Now days about any samples reuired could be pulled, and then let the animal go unharmed . Instead they will preserve them ,and than boast about the size of the collection, this is another variation of animal hoarding.When it comes to the private sector the animals are subjected to all the needless mutations which serves no purpose.After all is said there is many collectors on both sides that make great contributions to the study.So the bottom line is both sides need to work together,becauseif it is left up to one side only, no matter what side the animals will not have a chance.
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by agkistrodude on November 20, 2010
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I don't and won't claim to be a taxonomist, but what about Micrurus fulvius fulvius, and Micrurus fulvius tener? I can't find anything but coloration and location separating the two in the books I have. At least with C.h.horridus and C.h.atricaudatus, there are many more differences than that. Has genetic testing been done on the Coral snakes yet? Take care, Marty
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by AquaHerp on November 20, 2010
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Actually, the Mirurus fulvius flulvius is no longer a valid species either. Now simply Micrurus fulvius; The Eastern coral snake. The Texas coral is now Micrurus tener with 4 named subspecies here in North America. My guess is that we will see at least one more split coming from the coastal and inland corals in Texas.
DH
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by AquaHerp on November 20, 2010
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I'm not. Wasn't my research.
Eric Smith ar University of Texas has been working on phylogenetic relationships of the corals for a while now. While at the NTRC I supplied him with venom, tissue samples and preserved specimens. During my talks with him, he was quite confident in his findings.
For me personally, taxonomy is not my thing. Timbers and Canebrakes are indeed different from a morphological point. However, with an unbroken range between the snakes it makes it hard to draw a line where one starts and the other ends.
DH
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by SwampY on November 20, 2010
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Doug,
Just wanted to note that I said it's a canebrake and not a timber. I didn't say anything about the latin names.
Chad
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RE: Pine snakes and rattlesnakes
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by Cro on November 20, 2010
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Doug, that will be very interesting if the Coral Snakes are further split into coastal and inland in Texas.
Did you seen any differences in the venom while you were working at the lab in Texas ?
Best Regards
John Z
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