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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by theemojohnm on June 15, 2011
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Agreed. Hence my recommendation to feed SMALL rabbits and squirrels, new-born to week-old. Chipmunks are even better, and they're everywhere around the Central PA, and Laurel Highland den sites.
Although, convenient-sized food is not always available in the wild, or captivity for that matter. I have witnessed an adult male timber strike at a large, adult rabbit, although I'm fairly certain the rabbit was out of range by the time it died; didn't appear to be a solid strike. This is a personal observation, not a cited claim from the literature. In captivity (especially in wild-caught timbers) stress is a big issue, and large prey items are, often times, refused. The animal has one line of defense, and isn't going to readily occupy it with an over-sized prey item if it can help it.
Again, a lot of it is locality dependent, but I have worked with WV timbers, and their feeding habits were for the most part, nearly identical to our Southwestern PA populations. Small rabbits will work, better than lab mice, anyway. (We have a lot of rabbit nests in the neighborhood that are abandoned frequently. If you can find a nest before the young rabbits leave, and begin to move around on their own, I'm fairly sure that they will take them). Although, I'd still probably recommend native birds first, if they still don't appear to have an interest in rodents after settling in. Much easier to find. The current literature seems to underestimate how often northern populations feed on birds. Judging by feeding responses, and fecals from WC specimens, the Central and Laurel Highland PA populations feed primarily on chipmunks and native birds.
But, I would tend to agree that one or two, smaller feedings, is going to be better than a single, large one, no matter what the prey item. I also think that they may not need or want to eat at all while they’re in your care, depending on how long you keep them.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by Pug on June 15, 2011
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Thanks for rescuing the timbers. The 80-90 degree temp strikes me as a little high. I'd give them some space in the 70-75 range, too.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by Peter84Jenkins on June 15, 2011
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What? 70 to 75 is way to low for day time temps. He has it right on the nose as long as they can thermoregulate when they want to.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by wvslayer on June 15, 2011
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I'm letting them stay outside where they can get full sun or escape into full shade. the temps are ambient temps i'm trying to keep as natural as possible i have gave them heat at night for the last few nights because the night temps have droped into to around 50 here.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by Peter84Jenkins on June 15, 2011
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I have done that with rescues myself. I would not worry about the dip in nighttime temps, they deal with that in their natural state quite well.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by agkistrodude on June 15, 2011
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I agree with the temps for daytime, maybe drop it down some at night and have a "hot spot " and a "cool spot" in the cage. Some good advise has been given, I'd definitely let them acclimate a little longer. Like Peter said, in the wild, they don't eat like captives, and I also agree on the smaller prey items. I have a couple South Georgia canebrake horridus well over 5 feet that love adult squirrels and medium rabbits, but keep it smaller for those 2-3 foot mountain timbers. Chipmunks are awesome if you can catch them. If your going to be turning them loose soon, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd be more worried about the local that your turning them loose in. Hopefully in an area with abundant food, shelter, and DEN SITES. That's what a lot of folks forget about. Thanks for rescuing them, Take care, Marty
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by agkistrodude on June 15, 2011
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OK, I was typing as you posted. Outside temps are fine as long as there is good shelter to get out of the sun. Remember, when it's 90 plus degrees out, they'll not only need shade to drop it from 95 to 90, but they'll often find a place cooler, deep in rock crevices, under logs, etc. Keep them hydrated too.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by lanceheads on June 15, 2011
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75 isn't too low! Remember, these are montane rattlesnakes, and can easily tolerate that temp. Keeping Timbers at 80, scares me. Sure, they'll eat, that's because their metabolism is in overdrive.
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by Rob_Carmichael on June 15, 2011
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There's some great advice here! I would just like to add a few minor (but important) aspects to husbandry. In my opinion, particularly with the northern clan of timbers, I would provide a wider thermal gradient. I provide low end temps of around 72-75 daytime and then let the exhibit cool down to room temp in the evening (ranges from low to upper 60's). I also provide VERTICAL space as these snakes will climb if given the opportunity. Our exhibit is 8 feet wide x 4 feet deep x 5 feet high complete with rock ledges on both sides, full spectrum lighting, thermostatically controlled heat/humidity, natural limbs on the floor covered by dirt/sand/peat/humus/leaf mulch and dead oak leaves. Even our very stubborn feeder began feeding right away in this more naturalistic vivaria (from our previous sterile cage which worked well for others but not for this specimen). Just something to try if the other tricks fail (but I think you'll have some good success if you try the squirrels, rabbits or quail).
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RE: timber rattlesnakes not eating
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by theemojohnm on June 15, 2011
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I agree that 90 degrees is very hot. Rob is right on the money; the mountain den-sites provide many more natural thermal gradients than just about any other crotalid normally encounters, and are in fact fairly complex little micro-habitats.
I would not run the 'hot spot' much warmer than 83-85 degrees. I would even go so far as to say that the 'hot spot' should, at MAXIMUM, cover only 1/3 of the total floor space of the enclosure. In 90 degree weather, northern timbers don't do much moving, and are usually found closer to the den sites in at least partial shade. That's why it's usually in the early morning or afternoon hours that most of their daily movement occurs.
85 degrees should be ok for the basking spot, on the warm end of the enclosure, but I would definitely run the ambient temps more along the lines of 75-80 degrees. The cool end of the cage could ideally be as low as 72. These are West Virginia timbers, after all.
Now, in a small enclosure, a difference of 13 degrees from warm end - cool end, can be a little tricky to achieve, and that's why a large enclosure is so nice to have, as Rob mentioned. The animals have more room to find their own ideal spot in a larger enclosure. The addition of “shelved” rockwork is also a great addition, more similar to their natural habitat, and offers even more thermal niches that the standard “flat” warm-cool end gradient.
In fact, keeping the enclosure outside in partial sun/shade is a good idea. Of course, this is what they're most accustomed to.
I wouldn't worry about the night time drop. As Daniel said, these are mountain timbers, and they experience this regularly. The only thing I might advise is to use a small, low-watt heat pad if the night time temps hang in the low 50's for any great length of time. Although the air temps certainly do drop, the large rocks of the northeastern mountainsides absorb a fair amount of heat after sitting in the sun all day, and continue to hold a small amount of heat, throughout the night. Though, the occasional nightly drop into the 50's is nothing that they can't handle. Again, if these snakes are to be released, the best temperature gradient is the one that they came from, and would be experiencing in the wild right now anyway.
Take Care,
-J. Mendrola
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