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You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Really
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by MasterSquam on November 10, 2011
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I always here these stupid saying being rumored around like, "if you keep venomous snakes you are going to get bit eventually." Really ? That's funny because I keep venomous snakes and if I really thought that I was going to get bit eventually then that would mean that I am suicidal, which I am not. The truth is that I don't think I am going to get bit ever. If you follow the right protocols you will never have to worry. All of the morons who get bit are usually fucking with the snakes, trying to milk them, touch the back of their heads, etc. I have been handling, sometimes free handling, all of my snakes daily for the last ten years and I have never ever thought for one second that I was going to get bit. Ever ! And I never will get bit. Ever ! If you treat your snakes with respect they will treat you with repsect, and that's the bottom line. There is no reason to argue and bicker about keeping anti venom, venomoids, or self immunizing, if you just have some balls, stop acting like a faggot, and handle your snakes with respect you won't have any problems. Just follow the proper protocols ! "You're going to get bit eventually," wow what a great amount of confidence you guys have in yourselves. Stopping trying to destroy the private herp community and start trying to shut down these bureaucratic zoo's ! Yea, lets outlaw more animals so that you have to go to the federally subsidized zoo's to see them. Communism Yea!
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by Peter84Jenkins on November 10, 2011
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watch the language. This site is an educational forum used by adults and children alike.
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by theemojohnm on November 10, 2011
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"Bureaucratic", "communism"..? I smell Blake..
I don't know who you are addressing, but quite a few folks here actually agree with you, myself included to an extent.. For most private keepers, I don't think that there should ever be a great chance of taking a bite. Sure, it's a risk, that we all take, but, if you keep yourself out of strike range, and don’t enter the animal's space, no way you're getting bit. (Which is why the free-handling portion of your post is being ignored, for the moment)..
Although, that risk increases when you have to pin an animal for medical treatment, etc.. It also increases if the work with a larger amount of animals, like some of us. More interactions = more chances to get bitten. That risk also increases if you are involved in research, that requires you to be hands on, in taking measurements, or milking snakes for venom extraction, etc..
But, for the most part, I agree with you.. There aren't many situations where most private keepers should be putting themselves in close enough proximity to take a bite in the first place. The exception being, medical treatments; you take on risks when you choose to keep these animals, including ensuring that they receive proper treatments, when necessary. But, there are proper ways to do that, as well..
So, if this IS Tommy, I agree with you.. Never thought I'd say that.
And, I second the suggestion to watch the language, and nature of your posts. Children visit this site quite frequently.
Take Care,
-John Mendrola
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by MasterSquam on November 11, 2011
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I was not arguing for a second that there are no risks involved in keeping hot snakes. Of course there are. However, there are also risks when you cross the street, drive on the expressway, eat unhealthy food, etc. The point is that if you are careful and take the time to understand your animals and develop the right techniques that work for you and allow you to feel comfortable when you work with them owning hots becomes as routine as any of the other things you might do with your day. Even if you have to do things like pin them for medical purposes or force feed them occasionally, if you focus on what you are doing and plan out your methodologies you will be fine. I feel comfortable with all of my tools and all of my snakes. Although, I only own a few hots, owning only a few gives me the time to work with them individually and domesticate them. I can say with 100% certainty that even if one of my snakes was to come within striking distance of me that it wouldn't strike me because it has no reason to. I handle them daily, I feed them, I treat them with respect, they are used to me, and they know I am of no danger to them. Therefore, they have no reason to strike me. It's quite simple and it is really not that big of a deal. BTW, I did not write this for people who work in labs or deal with lots of snakes at a time. I wrote this for the people who go to a reptile show and might want to take an eyelash viper home but keep hearing rumors circulated around that if they dare bring home such an animal that it spells certain doom. This simply isn't true and is an over exaggeration of the reality of the situation.
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by varivenom on November 11, 2011
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Domesticate wild animals with primative brains? Lol! You go on thinking that and see how far it gets you. There is a difference between domestication and tolerance.
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by LarryDFishel on November 12, 2011
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Rather than get too far into this, let me just make 2 points...
1) "Domestication", by definition is not something that happens to an individual animal. It is something that happens over AT LEAST dozens of generations of selective breeding by removing any animals that show aggression/fear/other undesirable behaviors. Getting an individual animal comfortable with humans (taming) helps but leaves those evolved behaviors in place to possibly surface when you least expect. And of course, the most tame domestic dog may bite you if you accidentally step on his tail or if he's sick and in pain...and it's often very hard to tell if a snake is sick.
2) When people say "you will eventually get bit", most people don't mean it literally. Of course there is a chance that you won't, and if you are very careful there's a pretty decent chance. But unless your snakes are kept in hermetically sealed, self-sustaining habitats, behind an inch of lexan, there's a chance you'll get bit, and you should take that very seriously.
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by KyleO on November 13, 2011
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Hopefully not soon, hopefully not severe..
Proper facilities, tools, and guidance can give you a good jump start, but you still need your head on your shoulders. Nobody is bite proof and the best get bitten too. I don't feel a bite is the deciding factor when evaluating someones level of competence- the deciding factor is what they were doing with and for the snake or society when they were bitten. Legitimate venom extraction or legitimate field research is much more of a noble cause then if one is drunk at home.
I would like to add that I was always of the impression that true expertise (for lack of a better word- who isn't just a student of the game?)is shown not when things are going as planned, but when they're not. Sure, an expert knows how to keep things running smoothly, but a keen fact of life is that things don't always go our way. So by that mindset, someone should be just as prepared for the event of snakebite, as they are to avoid snakebite. One word. Protocol. While I prefer our serum stays in the fridge, we still have it in the event I need it.
Oops! Forgot to give my answer- no I do not feel a bite is inevitable. But the statistics speak for themselves- when you add the numbers of how many interactions some of the elite in this field have against human error, you end up with a very small number of bite free careers. I can have hundreds of interactions in a given day and have for many years. To date- I am venomous snakebite free.
Kyle O'Grady
Assistant Curator
Indian River Reptile Zoo
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by Rob_Carmichael on November 13, 2011
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I agree with Kyle. Going back to the original person (how about identifying yourself, who are you, what is your experience, what are you basing your comments on?) writing the post, calling folks who get bitten as "morons" is quite moronic in my opinion. Sure, we've got a lot of morons in the hobby, lots of them, but even the best of the best have gotten nailed. WHy on earth would we call them "morons". It was always my goal to be venomous-bite free. That was something I took great pride in, and, that became my enemy because in my mind, I would never get nailed. Well, I did and it was a split second mistake on my part. The odds simply caught up to me despite me being so careful and meticulous in how I approached the keeping of hots at my nature center. To those who have not been bitten who are in the profession, my hats off to you but my hats go off to the many folks I respect who have shown that they are not perfect but still do everything right.
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by KyleO on November 13, 2011
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Hey Rob,
Still a very impressive track record. I hope you had a speedy recovery.
Kyle O'Grady
Assistant Curator
Indian River Reptile Zoo
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RE: You're Going to get Bit Eventually ? Not Reall
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by CanadianSnakeMan on November 14, 2011
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Personally, I think the widespread statement that a bite is inevitable is not an absolute truth as much as it is a warning to keepers to have all the necessary preperations in case of a bite. To quote Stanford U's Robert Sapolsky "The more impossible something is, the more it must become a moral imperative."
With that in mind, the more a bite is perceived as inevitable the more one must strive to prevent it from happening. As for swearing off antivenin, bite protocols and other important after-the-fact bite measures - I see that in the same way as someone going sailing without a life jacket. Sure, you might know your boat and the water and have years of experience, but if anyrhing bad ever happened, I bet you'll wish you had one.
I've heard the expression that a bite is bound to happen since I started getting interested in keeping venomous snakes, and it has helped me to design the safety procedures I have today. Bottom line, try to look at that expression as a challenge rather than a cardinal truth, and try your best every day to conquer that challenge... because death can come at any time from the tip of a fang.
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