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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by tomhartman on November 23, 2011
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Lol, yea the cold war is over because the communist government collapsed ! Wow Canadian snake man, I can't believe how close minded and ignorant you are. Especially since you recently made a thread entitled, " The Role of Private Keepers in Conservation," in which you state that "Also, according to the Amphibian Ark, if EVERY zoo worldwide pooled resources to save amphibians, only 50 species (10%) of currently threatened species coule be saved." So obviously by your own admission zoos couldn't possibly help conserve endangered species on their own and actually need the private sector to step it's game up. At which point one has to ask - if the private sector got it's act together why not decentralize zoos completely ? I do not see how what you argued on that thread and how what is being argued on this thread is any different other then this thread takes it a step farther by saying that if we are ultimately going to have to rely on the private sector any way, we might as well start decentralizing zoos to give the private sector more incentive and to shift our focus to trying to understand how to better coordinate the private sector. So obviously when you asked the question: As for research, why go to industry leaders when we already have zoos and reputable public institutions to do it for us? You already had the answer to your own question. Which leaves one to question your motives, especially since you also had to disregard the fact the zoos kill jobs and waste hundreds of millions of tax dollars on these projects that the private sector could do just as well and for free while simultaneously creating jobs, making money, and giving more people a chance to work with the animals that they love. Not everyone needs to have a PH.D to breed frogs, nor is it an ethical or practical request that everyone do so. As for your criticisms of my
proposals, all the problems you argued could be solved with a little bit of innovation and ingenuity. However, I would assume that you wouldn't be creative enough to understand that since you only know how to rely on bureaucracies to begin with. In addition, you also failed to consider my second proposal, namely that private industry leaders can send surplus animals back to the wild; which would have resolved the majority of your concerns in and of itself. BTW, look at what has happened to the tokay gecko with these fake aids cure accusations. They have almost been wiped out over night. Now people who have them in the US can export them back to their native country and make tons of money. If there wasn't so many in the private sector would the zoos even be able to help ? Probably not, and they would probably waste a lot of tax dollars trying. That's why the government just needs to stay out of our business with their idiotic and sadistic regulations. I know you cant see how one can balance a project for the greater good of the public while trying to make a buck but maybe if you just had some integrity and self respect you could. Have you considered going back to school ? I believe you can do it, oh heck canadian snake man, people can accomplish great things if they just try. Just think before you do things and have a little more confidence in yourself. You'll see, it will all work out.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by CanadianSnakeMan on November 23, 2011
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1. I never said that the private sector should not be involved in conservation. I said that they should take on projects under the guidance of professionals at zoos and conservation institutions. Projects like that need to be guided professionally.
2. If you actually read what I wrote, you'd see that I did address your point of the private sector 'releasing surplus animals into the wild'. Sorry, Tommy, but there is a lot more to that than you think. Even well planned captive reintroduction programs have failed. Think of how the invasive Chytrid fungus is wiping out most of the amphibians in South America - something that no one anticipated. These projects are better left to an institution whose goal is not profit, but fulfilling their role in conservation.
3. I never said that there is no room for the private sector. I work at a private zoo. I've spent the past few years fighting for the rights of the private sector in Canada for Christ's sake! But dismantling public institutions for profit just doesn't make sense. there is room for the private sector to do what it doesn best - make money. The public sector should stick to doing what it does best - to facilitate public projects. They can work together on projects, but ultimately those projects should be controlled by the public. Find me some successful examples of the private sector - netirely of its own free will - losing money in order to do some good for the environment and maybe you'll have a leg to stand on.
4. I have plenty of confidence in myself and my abilities and I cartainly don't need to justify that to you. I'm not the one spending my time trolling chat boards. Go do something useful and come back and tell us when you have. Maybe you could start a conservation project all by yourself and let us know how it goes.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by CanadianSnakeMan on November 23, 2011
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And now I'm done arguing with you before I piss off the respectable users of this site by troll-feeding.
Now go back under your bridge and troll somewhere else. Why not go find some amigos at a venomoid chatboard and talk about how bad and evil us communists are? With your likable personality and lightning sharp wit, I'm sure you won't have trouble making friends.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by varivenom on November 23, 2011
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100% agree canadian! Don't make me summon Ernest P. Worrell troll killer! Lol
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by tomhartman on November 24, 2011
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If we lived in a perfect world I would be inclined to agree with you but we don't. There is no way that the public and private sector could work together when the public sector is regulating the private sector out of existence. In fact I believe that most people in the public sector have disdain and contempt for those in the private sector and if they were asked if reptiles should be kept in the home by a policy maker they would say absolutely not. It would also be impractical to try to make private sector people adhere to AZA regulations. Zoos would ultimately end up loosing accreditation especially if someone got hurt. Not to mention the fact that even if I believed that the public and private sector could work together I wouldn't start the debate at let's work together. I would start it at zoos shouldn't exist and meet somewhere in the middle. Therefore it is completely justified to argue for the decentralization of zoos.
Secondly, I am working on my own conservation project, I own a corporation that employs 15 people, and maintain my own private collection successfully without big brother looking over my shoulder.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by lanceheads on November 24, 2011
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Tom,
What rules do the AZA have regarding keeping reptiles?
And why couldn't the private sector adhere to it?
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by Time on November 24, 2011
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I know of quite a few private people that keep and maintain large collections responsibly and safely.
I've had no less than a dozen Zoo, Museum, and University people visit my collection and admit that it would pass an AZA Inspection. It has already been given a Zoological Permit by the state.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by CHRIS on November 25, 2011
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first of all where is it written that the aza sets the standards and you have to be in a paid position to be qualified to keep these animals.remember one is only a paycheck, and possibly a diploma neither represents really represents qualifications,this is only done by hands on.are we so willing to gambel the exsistance of nature on egos and liability.i dont claim to know everything so i listen and in exchange i offer things from my experience and maybe we can all learn. so lets put the egos aside and go on.
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RE: Should Reptiles be Kept in Zoo's ? Not Really.
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by AquaHerp on November 25, 2011
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AZA currently works with numerous people in the private sector.
Once again, all I will say is that, as usual, your facts are nowhere near even close to accurate.
Express your opinion, that's great. But don't dress it up as fact and try to present it that way. Especially when once again, you fail to look at ALL the information out there and instead try to twist a tiny portion to fit your delusional ideas.
DH
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