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Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by elapid62 on August 11, 2003
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Does anaphylaxis shock get worse with every bit, or does it depend on body changes, and the amount of venom. Say You were bitten by an EDB, and You were bitten again by the same snake, and the same amount of venom. Would anaphylaxis be worse ?
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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Anonymous post on August 11, 2003
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By no way am I an expert on this topic, but I have watched many a documentary, and yes, it does seem to get dangerously worse. I am sure someone else can tell you more than I can.
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by BGF on August 12, 2003
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Go to http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/97 for an article Chris Harper and I wrote on the subject.
As for the allergy increasing, some allergies to increase with exposure but CH could probably elucidate this a bit more than I can.
Cheers
BGF
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by elapid62 on August 12, 2003
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Good article mates. My next question would be. Last year I was tagged by a EDB. I have, and have had an EPI-PENS. (Just in case) Well 10 mins. after the bite I could not move my legs, and I could not swollow. I felt quit bad. I used my pen. And it did not seem to help. Was this becouse it was more from the venom, and not from shock ?
Thanks anonymous, and BGF.
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by Chris_Harper on August 12, 2003
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#1 - Yes, allergies do seem to get worse with exposure. Oddly enough, sometimes allergies just completely go away on their own. That is very rare though. Typically, a person who has had hypersensitivity reactions in the past will have them again upon exposure. The key to surviving anaphylaxis is to treat it early -- benadryl, epinephrine and a corticosteroid of some kind.
#2 - The selective (waist down) paralysis that accompanies Eastern Diamondback bites has not been specifically nailed down as to it's cause. It is known that there is a neurotoxin that enters the synaptic gap and destroys the neurotransmitters. The effects seem to occur at the level of the spinal cord called the "cauda equina". This is an area chock full of large nerve bundles that would certainly effect waist-down movement.
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WOW!
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by Buzztail1 on August 12, 2003
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That is an effect of Eastern Diamondback bites that I had not heard of! That could certainly be detrimental if you were out herping by yourself, got bitten and couldn't make it to help before the paralysis set in!
Yikes!
Karl
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by elapid62 on August 12, 2003
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Ya, And paralsis comes on fast. Atleast for me, like I said 10 mins. or less. Drag your self to help. I had a friend to help me. (Thank God) It got bad for awhile. Chris, is EDB venom knowen for neurotoxic venom? I just thought it damaged tissue. Do you know much about it?
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by BGF on August 12, 2003
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The neurotoxicity of rattlesnakes is a very good example of assumptions and oversights. It 'appears' that the incidence is rising and some rather ludicrous theories have been batted around. My favorite is that the snakes are hybridising with the mojave green (despite the snakes, southern pacifics for example, being bog standard for their species).
What is actually the case is that neurotoxicity is actually rather widespread not only in the rattlensakes, not only in the pitvipers but actually all throughout the vipers. The Berg adder (Bitis atropos) is devastatingly neurotoxic for example.
As for the time course, typically the viper-style neurotoxicity is a bit slower than the elapid-type (due to the nuances of the different molecule types involved). 10 minutes is extremely rapid but weirder things have been reported.
Cheers
BGF
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RE: Bites And Anaphylaxis Shock
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by elapid62 on August 14, 2003
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I have done some research and thinking back on the EDB bite. And now think it was longer after the bite that I lost use in my leg's. More like 25 mins. after the bite. Things were all a little blurry that night. So I'm sorry. You are right BGF. That may be to fast for the venom to start to work on the body. I was bitten in the wrist where all the blood vesseles are. ??? Anyway, Is that something that is commen in EDB bites ?
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New question on a related subject
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by Naja_oxiana on August 14, 2003
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Since we're talking about immunology and hypersensitivity here, is Tim Friede still alive? I tried his website the other day and saw that it is no longer functional.
Thanks,
Roger
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