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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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Just out of curiosity (and maybe this would be a good thread topic) which species would you be leery of keeping. I have reservations about attempting to keep a large B. asper. 7-8' length, monster fangs, elapid-like speed, and a lengthy strike range gives me pause. Also I liked your observation on your Rinkhals. Of the six I have one pays no attention to me when I'm in the room but the others would fling venom until they ran dry and died of exhaustion if given the chance. I generally keep the front glass of their enclosures covered because they drill it continuously.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by andrewhopkins on July 10, 2013
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This is a very interesting topic. For myself, I started with Aspidelaps when I made the transition to elapids. They are full of attitude and much more mobile, which requires an elevated level of alertness than pit vipers that are ambush predators. Second elapid I got was a young Naja kaouthia. I would have been in trouble if I suddenly made the jump to an adult sized Naja. Experience with Aspidelaps helped and this way I gave myself time to grow with the snake.
I understand how some people say there are no beginner elapids because that's a ridiculous thing to say, as all of them can do considerable damage to you be it venom potency or your body's response to the venom.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by TheBlackMamba on July 10, 2013
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At first I thought choppergreg74 was completely wrong. There certainly are beginner snakes. This is because snakes such as Waglers vipers are less toxic, less aggressive, and slower then let's say a king cobra. Therefore, they would be better to keep at first as you familiarize yourself with keeping hots. However, on the other hand, most people don't just think " I want to keep hot snakes where do I start." Rather, most people see a snake they like that happens to be hot, such as an eyelash viper or a rattlesnake, and want to buy that snake. In these instances the only thing that is going to familiarize you with keeping a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake. For me, I liked blizzard monocle cobras more then I feared cobras so I grew a set of b****, learned how to do things correctly, and bought my snake. In this sense I am glad I didn't have a "beginner snake" because that may have given me the impression that I knew more then I actually did because again, at the end of the day, the only thing that is going to prepare you for working with a monocle cobra is a monocle cobra.
In my opinion, and this is only my opinion, I am not trying to start a fight, the best beginner snake is a venomoid of whatever species it is that you plan on keeping. I have a venomoid that I train people with and it really is an invaluable tool. Additionally, The snake is in great health, has never produced venom, and shows no side effects, irregularities, or differences from my other monocles.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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Venomoids serve no purpose other than to torture and mutilate an innocent animal. People who see snakes as more than just collectors items would have nothing to with anything venomoid.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by TheBlackMamba on July 10, 2013
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My snake is in no way shape or form a mutilated or tortured animal. I personally don't prefer keeping venomoids because I like my snakes hot. The venomoid I have serves only to help train people and get them comfortable with monocles. However, the snake is no different than any of my other monocles, it is healthy, active, assertive, etc. Visually you would not be able to tell the difference. The snake has 0 health problems, and it is not aware that it is a venomoid. There is no debate about this, the snake is happy, healthy, and fine. I would never keep or have a procedure done to an animal that I felt would be inhumane in any manner. All my snakes are in excellent health. The snake works as damage control in the case of an accident with a new handler and is a great tool for this purpose.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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Say what you want but it is mutilation and is of no benefit to the animal whatsoever. Any surgery that only benefits an owner should never be done, including surgically removing a cats claws. Your snake may have had great results from the surgery but a good percentage do not and by choosing to own a venomoid you've become a cog in the supply demand cycle. A wild caught black racer would be just as good for practice as a venomoid cobra.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by TheBlackMamba on July 10, 2013
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A black racer is black racer and a monocle cobra is a monocle cobra. You cannot get the experience of working with a monocle cobra from working with a black racer. End of story. There are also plenty of benefits to the snake such as it won't be destroyed if it bites someone and it is better suited for captivity which is the environment in which it will spend the rest of its life in reality. Hypothetically, someone who has to move or finds out they have a kid on the way may end up putting their snake down because they cannot find a home for it in time as where the surgery may make the snake more marketable as it has better suited the animal for its new environment. Furthermore, my snake is not mutilated. Would I get my cat declawed -no, would I get my snake defanged - no, would I get my cat neutered - yes, would I get my snake devenomized, yes, is it mutilated, no.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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So once one has mastered the venomoid monocled then surved the hot monocled are they ready to move on to another species such as a forest cobra or banded snouted or should they look for a venomoid version of either first? If a black racer is a black racer and a monocled cobra is a monocled cobra then is a forest cobra a forest cobra? Would one need a venomoid nigricincta or could you use the venomoid monocled and just have someone firing a squirt gun at your face? This isn't rocket science or voodoo magic.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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Do you realize how many venomoids have proven to not be venomoid? Plenty. You won't know for sure until you've been bitten, and maybe not even on the first bite. All a venomoid monocled cobra prepares you for is how to handle a venomoid monocled cobra. If the guy "expert" behind the counter at a gun store hands you a gun and tells you he just unloaded it so look down the barrel and pull the trigger would you do it?
Makes about as much sense as trusting that a venomoid snake can't envenomate you.
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RE: Is there such a thing as a "beginner"
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by wamartin67 on July 10, 2013
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@BlackMamba - does this sound familiar? "The entire trick is to get really good handling fast snakes on a hook. Practice keeping a snake such as a black racer on a hook"? That was your initial response to the creator of this thread. Now you say a black racer is not good practice and a venomoid cobra is the best way.
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