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Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by Phobos on July 19, 2013
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I am reposting a bit of one of the previous topics that should get wide exposure. In other words, I'm maybe poking the stick in the hornets nest.
The comment is exactly as written, except I corrected spelling where needed.
"People come here for help and guidance and then are ridiculed. This hobby is full of arrogant elitist individuals. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to keep venomous snakes, and if you have half a brain chances are you will do just fine. As has been said before on this forum thousands of people buy hot snakes at shows and people aren't getting bitten right and left. I wish the normal people who weren't interested in trolling the average person would take over and represent the hobby in a way that didn't make an interested newcomer feel like it was a hopeless endeavor."
This is my reply to the individual.
"Your confusing elitism with something called experience & knowledge, which takes time and effort to acquire. Most novice keepers like you don't want to take the time to get experience & knowledge and arrive on this and other forums totally unprepared. Unprepared in the sense, they have not done any preliminary reading or research on their own. Setting the stage for criticism pertaining to the total lack of knowledge on the topic they are interested in.
Take my example for instance, that dude has no clue about keeping Sidewinders or about the natural life they lead. ( The dude asked if it was okay to keep "Horned Lizards" in with his Sidewinders) Why? Let me tell you why from my experience. They don't want to take the time & effort required to do the research on the topic. This in turn puts the animals at risk for sickness, injury, and death. The same applies about getting bit, if you don't know the species and what makes it tick your putting yourself and others around you at risk.
The bottom line, come prepared with basic knowledge about your interest, a learning mindset and you will come away with knowledge & experience you desire, not a sore butt."
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by TheBlackMamba on July 19, 2013
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The problem that you are highlighting is caused by the fact that most people do not realize that keeping venomous snakes is not something that you can learn by trial and error -it takes discipline. Personally, I don't care is some idiot doesn't know what he is doing. The problem is that law makers are just waiting to pounce on the opportunity to outlaw venomous snakes once and for all in all states. All they need is for one kid to get bit. That's it. They only need to be right once, we need to be right all the time. Therefore, it is in every ones best interest if people are as brutal to new comers as possible. Your pride will grow back, your finger won't.
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by farmerjohn on July 19, 2013
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to be honest my first post here was a purely simple question about a topic and I was denigrated and met with hostility and half the folks didnt answer the question which was based on science not hey if i kiss a mamba will my day be ruined
just said a whole ton or trash so the OP has a point it does seem to be reasonably hostile here, if someone asks a question or is ignorant instead of being a jackass and calling names you could just as easily answer there questions and then when the next guy comes around hell be able to go O look guy X asked the same question I have and guy Y answered it succinctly thus saves another question
you can even counter someones statements or notions but if someones wanting to keep hots and your as worried as you claim about legislation then how about saying i know you think this but heres how it really is and try to steer him from a potentially dangerous decision if you just shut them down they may just go through with a bad idea and have no knowledge to make a better decision
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by wamartin67 on July 19, 2013
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Not by trial and error? Everything you learn about anything in life eventually involves trial and error. You can take all the drivers training classroom courses you want but eventually you have to get behind the wheel of a car. You can hang out with a venomous mentor until the cows come home but eventually you're going to have to do it yourself and there will be trial and error involved. I can't say that I know what people do as mentors but I can tell you that anyone is welcome to hang out with me and see what I do but there is no way I'm letting them personally interact with my snakes just because of liability issues.
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by andrewhopkins on July 19, 2013
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This is a much needed discussion in light of what's been going on around here lately.
Those who get their feelings hurt may relegate it as elitism all they want. Remember folks, I know for a fact this website is monitored by the USFW officials. We are under a heavier watch than one would think. We ought to put our best foot forward in all aspects and if an unprepared poster gets their emotions hurt by the said truth; I for one am not sorry. It is better to be responsible by governing ourselves, if that means someone is getting ridiculed, it's well justified for the greater good. We are not exactly here to be hugging machines in my opinion, or are we?
We were all doe-eyed newcomers once, but if you want to come across as clueless and immature it's not unreasonable to receive some flak. Too often, I see these newcomers become fascinated by venomous and become too irrational in their thinking. They want a Bitis rhinoceros (it's no longer Bitis gabonica rhinoceros, but if they haven't touched any documents other than Wikipedia they wouldn't know this) after owning some ball pythons. Those in particular are error-free snakes, if you want to trial-and-error with Gaboons you are going to either die or lose a limb in due time. Also, they tend to get carried away with the size of the collections. Within the first year, they have bought venomous snakes in double digits including some of the advanced Naja species in hopes of "breeding" them. A part of the responsibility as a beginner is knowing your limits and self-control. For some of them this may be ideally not owning any at all.
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by farmerjohn on July 19, 2013
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not everyone who posts a question is some idiot who will get the attention of the fish and wildlife guys
saying hey for those who do XYZ how do you do it and why in this case it was the self immunization thread I got a whole lot of your a friggen idiot you need to be in a looney bin all for asking how what works why
later Mr Cecil was kind enough to link me to a sight with several scientific papers on the subject and my curiosity was satisfied but there was a whole host of uneducated unhelpful comments in between.
sure this site is watched and some people might be dumb enough to think hey i found this cites protected whatever i want to sell it any takers you can say hey dude thats illegal without blasting them because they may legitimately not know something is illegal/wrong or dangerous so if you say this is wrong and why then people can learn
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by andrewhopkins on July 19, 2013
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I too agree that not everyone who asks questions around here is an idiot who deserves to be locked up behind bars; I never insinuated as such if that's the impression you're somehow getting. By the way, the sale of CITES listed animal(s) is only illegal when you're crossing International jurisdiction without bona fide paperwork, or otherwise brought into the country without paperwork.
Sorry to hear that you've gotten harsh feedback.
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by farmerjohn on July 19, 2013
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its ok in the end I got a link with some good little nuggets just makes me a little more standoffish on actually wanting to start a topic tho I am currently researching all I can before I get my first hot so figure about a year from now I will have all the research done I feel necessary to take the plunge would love advice tho
and I am aware of cites requirements just making up a example best i had =(
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by andrewhopkins on July 19, 2013
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I don't think we have to be aggressive to all newcomers who ask questions, if that's the impression you've got so far. We all learn a lot by asking questions not only on this board, but in life. The ability to do so is what makes this website better. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions as a newcomer. It's only that a standard of seriousness is required in this part of the world for obvious reasons.
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RE: Getting started keeping venomous redux
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by yoyoing on July 24, 2013
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You "corrected spelling where needed" and the first two words in your reply are "your confusing"?
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