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Mithridatism
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by Code187 on October 16, 2013
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I watched this video of a man that had been experimenting with mithridatism and someone commented on how dumb he was because now he would have to continue this practice for the rest of his life, because if he were to stop and be bitten in the future he would most likely have an extreme allergic reaction and die. I pretty much blew it off as a drama king response ... But... I'm really not sure, and I am not a expert on venom or the human body for that matter. The way I see it is that if he were to quiet his practice of self envenomation and at a latter point in life receive a bite, he would just not have the antibodies to ward off the effects of the bite, just like if you or I were to take a bite ( God Forbid ) . Now honestly this is just my guess based on my experience with honey bees, so I would love to hear others opinions on this.
Just to be clear the argument was that you are far more likely to have an allergic reaction to venom after being previously exposed.
Thanks in advance,
Steve Morse
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RE: Mithridatism
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by Code187 on October 16, 2013
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Really- why would that be the case? And if that's true, would that be the same for a keeper bitten twice by the same species?
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RE: Mithridatism
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by agkistrodude on October 16, 2013
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Yes. I believe so. You have to be exposed to it at some point. And not necessarily bitten. Just being around them is enough. There is a good article on the subject in the "articles" section of this site that explains it much better than I could. Here it is.... http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/97
Take care, Marty
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RE: Mithridatism
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by Code187 on October 17, 2013
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Wow! Thanks Marty for that link! And to Chris, great article. That is something to be prepared for. I guess now my question would be is this reaction stronger in venomous keepers than in what others or ourselves come in contact daily? Couldn't you or I come down with an allergy to peanuts or bee stings tomorrow that we have not shown a reaction to until now? I believe in being prepared to the best of ones ability in all aspects of life, and would rather be ready for the worst while hopping for the best, but at the same time do not plan on living a life of fear in my hobbies or any other aspect of life either. Is this more common than not is my question and if so why would be my next?
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RE: Mithridatism
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by agkistrodude on October 17, 2013
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You can never tell when a reaction will occur, and yes, it could happen to any of us any time with peanuts, shellfish, bee stings, etc. Venomous keepers are more likely to have a reaction to venom than others just because of their exposure to it. Not many non snake folks ever have any contact with a venomous snake other than looking at them behind glass at a zoo. If you have access to an epi pen, keeping one on hand wouldn't be a bad thing, I always make sure we have plenty of Benadryl at the house. Take care, Marty
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RE: Mithridatism
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by wamain67 on October 17, 2013
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I'm an ER doc, not an allergist/immunologist, so I'm not an expert on this topic by any means. Anaphylaxis is a term used to describe extreme symptoms of an allergic reaction, not an actual antigen-antibody interaction. The interaction itself is one of the 4 types of allergic reaction, type 1 being the most common. Within type I allergic reactions you can have symptoms ranging from mild (itching at the site, local redness, hives and generalized itching) to full blown anaphylactic shock.
Another thing relating to the original question is that anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reaction can have the same symptoms and severity. The difference in the two being that anaphylaxis requires prior exposure and an anaphylactoid reaction doesn't. Being exposed previously can predispose one to anaphylaxis on a subsequent exposure but usually doesn't. There's really no way to know if, when, and how severe of a reaction you could have. Also, just because you have an allergic reaction once you may not have a reaction the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time, etc. Basically there's no rhyme or reason.
Lastly, Benadryl is fine for minor allergic reactions (itching, hives, etc) but is of no use once you get to anaphylaxis level. At that point an EpiPen is the only home treatment that may keep you from getting to the worst outcome of anaphylaxis - death.
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RE: Mithridatism
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by wamain67 on October 17, 2013
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Previous exposure really doesn't increase your odds of a reaction on a subsequent exposure. There's no difference between bee stings, peanuts, and snake venom when it comes to eliciting an allergic reaction. How many millions of people have been stung numerous times or eat peanuts regularly and never have a reaction? Conversely you can be stung 1000 different times and have a severe reaction on the 1001st sting or eat peanuts regularly for most of your life then one day have a severe reaction.
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RE: Mithridatism
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by Code187 on October 17, 2013
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Wamain67,
Thankyou for your comment, my thinking was based on my experience with honeybee stings. When I was a child my dad kept bee's, and I lived in Florida at the time so shoes were reserved for Sunday's, and needless to say I received my fair share of stings. I seemed to always have a greater reaction to the honey bee stings, with more swelling and redness than my dad or sister. None of the stings required hospitalization or anything else special. My dad always had epi- pens in the fridge and that made him feel better, but my goal was always to avoid being stung and receiving a shot in the same day! Long story short, I grew up moved to georgia went years ( 10+) with out a honey bee sting and then decided to get a hive of my own. Somehow I ended up with a colony that did not appreciate my presence in the least, and let me know regularly. To my surprise, my reaction was far less than years ago, and even with multiple stings within an hour all symptoms had left. So that was what I thought about when I originally started this thread. At the same time I realize that I could be stung, bitten, breath, eat or whatever else something tomorrow and have a completely different reaction than yesterday,... But.. I could get in a car accident tomorrow as well, so I wear my seat belt, and try to keep my eyes on the road. It would be interesting to hear the testimonies of a few people that have received multiple bites by the same species and wether or not there first bite was better, worse, or the same as the following. I know there would still be many factors involved, and I think we all have much to yet learn about the effects of venom, but it still would be interesting.
Thanks to all,
Steve Morse
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