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RE: Mithridatism
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by agkistrodude on October 20, 2013
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But in one paragraph you stated, "The difference in the two being that anaphylaxis requires prior exposure and an anaphylactoid reaction doesn't."... Which is why I posted that "Venomous keepers are more likely to have a reaction to venom than others just because of their exposure to it. Not many non snake folks ever have any contact with a venomous snake other than looking at them behind glass at a zoo."... Then you posted, "Previous exposure really doesn't increase your odds of a reaction on a subsequent exposure."... I believe for Anaphylaxis to occur, previous exposure is necessary. Did I interpret your post wrong maybe? Or am I wrong. Take care, Marty
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RE: Mithridatism
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by wamartin67 on October 21, 2013
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Yes you are correct. For a reaction to be true anaphylaxis you would have to have a prior exposure to whatever the antigen is. However, even without prior exposure you could have an anaphylactoid reaction that, for all intents and purposes, could be just as serious. But if you take into account the number of people who eat peanuts more than once in their life, eat shellfish more than once in their life, or get stung by bees more than once in their life and never have a reaction on the second exposure, a prior exposure really doesn't increase your odds of a reaction the next time.
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RE: Mithridatism
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by greenranger on November 5, 2013
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I practice self immunization and I believe wamartin67 is correct in that being exposed doesn't increase your chance for an allergic reaction. Taking his point with bees and peanuts even further, Bees and some pit vipers have a few of the same fractions in there venom. From the start of my immunization to now the reactions are less severe. I also think the belief that you are more at risk has been blown out of proportion and sensationalized by the media and animal planet. Look up some of the data on the horses that they use to make antivenin. The majority are in good health.
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RE: Mithridatism
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by Code187 on November 6, 2013
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@greenranger-- I have a general distrust for the media and their constant sensational fear invoking "coverage". So I try to seek out those that have walked the walk, if you know what I mean. ;)
You sad you have been self immunizing and I was just curious as to what your reasons are and how you started? Your profile says you've been keeping a year or so, so I assume you have started your envenomations recently? I'm not out to put you on blast, just interested. Thanks and be safe
Steve Morse
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RE: Mithridatism
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by greenranger on November 7, 2013
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I thought about keeping venomous for years before taking the plunge and collecting a copperhead. Through my research beforehand I had learned of self immunization and had always thought it sounded like a good idea. I did lots of research, started talking to Tim Friede and reading anything I could related to immunotherapy and venoms. For me its an insurance policy but I think my situation is different because I started keeping with the intention of using self immunization. I love my snakes but I also love self immunizing and everything that goes with it. Its a process that few would try and its surrounded by controversy, and I'm as obsessed with it as I am with venomous keeping in general. Mostly because of the denial that it works. It seems so many venomous keepers are just unwilling to believe or at least admit they believe it works. It's science, it's the way antivenin is made, and it makes no sense that so many deny it. I realize I've gone off on a wild tangent here. I've been immunizing for 10 weeks. I started with 1/1000 dilution, I'm now at 1/100.
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RE: Mithridatism
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by Code187 on November 7, 2013
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@greenranger-- that's interesting indeed, are you strictly using contortrix venom or a mixture or what? What is your goal out of this and if you don't mind was the 1/1000 dose the first venom in your blood stream? Controversial subject for sure- but what's not any more?
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RE: Mithridatism
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by greenranger on November 8, 2013
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The 1/1000 was the first snake venom to enter my bloodstream. It felt similar to a bee sting and then swelled a little and made a bruise. In about 5 days it was gone. Now the injections heal in about 2 or 3 days and produce much less pain with no bruises. I am currently using only Northern copperhead - Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen but will eventually incorporate the southern copperhead as well as I have those too. My goal is to reach the average dose of venom given from a typical bite, and then to actually take a bite. At the rate I'm going I will be up to pure venom in 20 more weeks.
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