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Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by monstersnakesforever on September 4, 2014
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Hi :) This question might sound really stupid to you, sorry if it does. To start off with I am completely fascinated by venomous snakes I would love to own them in the future, but for now while I'm still under 18 I was wondering if I could kind of train myself with non-venomous species that resemble a hots behavior. I would treat them just as if they were a deadly species, and I could learn hooking skills and what not by doing this. It wouldn't be my only training though, I plan to take an actual class for keeping venomous snakes and also get a mentor once I'm at least 18... I'm not exactly sure what species I should go with. I was thinking of getting a variety like a black racer, amazon tree boa, and I considered a false water cobra, but on other forums I have read their venom has been fatal before and compares to a timber rattlesnakes venom .. I am not sure if this is true or not, anyways what do you guys think? Would it be a good idea and I could actually learn from this or would it be just a waste of time, and what different types of species should I get that will best resemble some hots behavior? Also, I know not every venomous species have the same behavior, that's why I would like to have a large variety of non-venomous or mildly venomous species to practice with. Thank you :]
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by choppergreg74 on September 4, 2014
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This question was recently asked on Fauna. And the real answer is No. And any mentor or person that tells you otherwise is steering you wrong. If you can't find a mentor. You must do much homework and start off with baby steps. Such as what species you like crotalids, elapids, or vipers. Then you need a proper facility. Not your bedroom. Escape proof room, and proper size hooks, tongs and yes Midwest gloves as an extra precaution. NOT FOR HANDELING! Then you need proper cages with locks and keys. Not Glass tanks! Next if you like crotalids start with a baby. Like a pigmy or baby viridis if it is an elapid baby aspidelaps or baby siamensis (even though they are splitters) with proper gear they do not get large like other cobras. And fairly easy to work with. Also remember Get a Baby! If they are not available keep doing your homework and wait till they become available. With a baby your knowledge and experience will grow with the snake. Venomous keeping is not rocket science. It's 100% common sense. Some may disagree with me. But all venomous snakes are deadly. Pygmy rattlesnake or Easterrn Diamondback. You don't want to get bit by either. Like I said in the past getting shot with a 22cal CAN be more deadly than a 44 mag. A Fiat 500 can be more deadly than a Lamboghni. A Vespa scooter can be just as dangerous as a Suzuki Hyabusa. Many factors go into keeping venomous. I only scratched the surface. Good luck and be safe.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by choppergreg74 on September 4, 2014
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Also I think a false water cobra is a nice choice. The thing with rearfang snakes is we are not too sure just how toxic they are because they have a poor delivery system. Many many years ago boomslangs were sold in the pet trade as harmless. We now know that's not the case.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by BlackMamba88 on September 7, 2014
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I disagree, I think you can train yourself with non venomous snakes. That's exactly how I did because I couldn't find a mentor. My first snake was a monocle cobra. I jumped right into and got one. I had no expeirence and I also use exo terra tanks witch are glass. I now train people and I have never had any issues with any of my snakes. I was also 18 when I started.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by LarryDFishel on September 14, 2014
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I'm going to split the difference and give you an unequivocal "sort of"...
Unless you've already used them a lot, ANY practice with hooks will help with your dexterity. Use two hooks for everything for now. That's a skill that takes some practice, including planning ahead to not get into a situation where you need a hand free and don't have one. If you already have non-venomous snakes, work with the ones you have (not huge pythons, because that won't help much) and maybe consider just using the hooks for other things like picking up or moving objects around the snake room. Any practice is good.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with something like a black racer for now, because you SHOULD NOT be getting a cobra or mamba until you've have some serious work with slower venomous.
That said, this WILL NOT completely prepare you for handling venomous. Even a nasty black racer that bites you every chance it gets wil not prepare you for the pucker factor of a pigmy rattlesnake leaping off the hook and making a bee-line for your feet. If it is at all possible, find a mentor, even if it's just for an hour, a couple of times. You really want someone there the first few times, especially, the first few times you fail, and someone needs to dig an unhappy snake out from under something that shouldn't have been in the room.
Don't even think about getting venomous unless you have a snakeproof room. Try to keep it uncluttered and arrange things so there is nowhere a snake can hide, or get to where you can't reach it, or SEE it.
These precautions become less important once you have some expertise and confidence in your handling, but they still help.
I find that good lighting helps me a lot too. It sucks not being able to see a snake well if it gets under/behind something.
Oh, and get at least 3 hooks, so you have two to use, and a spare within easy reach in case a snake climbs one.
I know most of these "hints" from experience. I had a mentor, who was very knowledgeable, but had a lot of other responsibilities. I got maybe a 10 minute verbal intro and demonstration, and he watched my first few handlings, over a few minutes and then left me alone. (With frequent advice and some supervision when I would move up to a harder species.) I survived, but this is NOT how I would do it based on that experience, and I've trained quite a few people since then. I had had many years of keeping nonvenomous, but had never really used hooks before. I also had to lock the door a few times and go get him to help round up a snake that I couldn't handle, or couldn't see.
Oh, and get at least a couple of 40 inch or so hooks, and a couple of smaller ones, if you get small snakes. One thing that may not be obvious is that, within reason, larger snakes are easier to work with than smaller ones.
Sorry. This is turning into a novel, and I need to get going. Obviously, I need to write this up properly and maybe put it up on my web site and/or here. Good luck.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by BlackMamba88 on September 16, 2014
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It probably isn't best to get a fast moving agressive species for your first snake, especially if you cant find a mentor. Then again, prepare for the snake you want to keep. If your getting into hots because you like elapids working with slow moving vipers isn't going to help you at all. In fact, it may hurt because it will give you a false sense of confidence. Working with elapids as your first snake and no expierence certainly is a little dangerous but I don't think it's wreck less or negligent. Keeping hots isn't hard, it's essentially mastering the art of picking up (controlling) a snake with a stick. A cave man could do it.
Also, for the sake of being pragmatic, I do agree that you should have a snake proof room but I also understand that most people don't have a spare room to give to a snake or designate as a reptile room. So a better way to look at it would be to snake proof the room you keep your snakes in. Just think of what you could do to make your room more secure. Just for your info my main display is in my living room. I do that because I keep my tanks very secure. It's not rocket science to keep your cages secure. Exo terra also has alot of neat features that are great for keeping hots especially if your not hording them and you don't need stackable cages which in my opinion are the only reason the crappy vision cages are so popular amongst hot keepers.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by choppergreg74 on September 16, 2014
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We'll ill jump in here and say by having venomous snakes in glass cages is not safe. Please don't do it. It is not the way to start out. There are so many options out there without glass and for a comparable price. If you are doing routine maintenance and trying to get any elapid or some pit vipers out. For example( bothrops ) and they happen to go ballistic and the keeper jumps or moves fast. He or she can hit the glass with the hook and break the glass. Now you need to be worried about the snake and yourself getting cut as well as being bitten. (Not to mention chasing the snake around the room or via versa). And now there is no cage to keep the snake in until you get another one. Therefore you should always keep a spare cage for the unexpected. Also if the snake has a wound and you need to medicate it you have another risk to deal with. So even if you start out with a pigmy rattlesnake. Start off on the right foot. This is an expensive hobby that requires cages that are usually more money than the snakes themselves. That's just the way it is. A baby cobra may seem fine in an exotera. But I've felt how thin that glass is. A 5 foot cobra can hit that glass hard enoug to break it. All glass has a pressure point. Hit even lightly in the right spot will break it. I worked in a pet store as a kid. I've seen 220 gallon tempered glass thank shatter because a mop stick hit it the right way while moping the floor. I've seen an iguanna break a 55 gallon tank with his tail, and he was about 36 inches.
As far as your room goes. You must take many factors in. Are you a single person living alone? Do you have an apartment in a house where others live upstairs or downstairs? Are there kids around? This will all determine how and where you should keep you snakes. I don't agree with living rooms. Because guests may come over, repair or delivery men may come through. And people talk. Neighbors friends etc. before you know it people in the neighborhood are complaining and laws get passed. NOT IN OUR FAVOR. Unfortunately this is the way things are. This is not a hobby for cave men. Wether they can do it or not. These happen to be my opinions only, and people are going to do what they want. Keep asking questions. It's a good way to learn.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by BlackMamba88 on September 16, 2014
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Vision cages and every other cage I know has glass on it. The glass on those cages could break just as easily as the glass on exo terra if tipped or knocked over and I have never heard of someone accidentally breaking there cage while handeling a snake or of a cobra breaking the glass on a terrarium. Vision cages have no place for a heat lamp that gives a snake vitamin D3 or natural sunlight. Only heat panels. They only have one entrance to get the snake out of. They are ugly and hard to clean. They have crevices that the snakes could hide in and poor ventilation. Exo Terra is hands down the best cage you can have for venomous unless you keep really large venomous.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by choppergreg74 on September 16, 2014
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Yes I agree also about Vision cages. Even with a lock one can pick the glass off the track and open it. Poor design for venomous. The cages I mean are P.M. Herp cages. They are 100% escape proof and almost are some sort of PVC with plexiglas doors. Very affordable. They even have shift cages that are outstanding and make it easy for cleaning. Boa Master makes nice wooden cages with plexiglas doors. There are many out there. But cages are a preference. Same as cage decor some like natural set ups, others like paper, hide box and a water bowl. Main thing is safety. And one component to safety is being comfortable with your working conditions. I love to look at elaborate set ups. But I prefer working with simplistic ones.
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RE: Can I train myself with non-venomous species?
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by LarryDFishel on September 20, 2014
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Just to throw in my $0.02 on glass. I was never a fan of vision cages, but more because of the design than the glass. The cages I like best in every category, except looks, are Neodesha cages. I've dropped the glass fonts on a wooden floor many times, and managed to break a couple, but they are very tough, and I've never managed to break one with a hook, in spite of having standing hooks tip over and hit the glass several times. They are tempered glass, so when they do break, they shatter into tiny cubes. You could probably walk on the broken glass with bare feet if you aren't too heavy. I assume the glass on vision cages is the same. I suspect what Greg was referring to as "glass cages" are aquariums. Cheap aquariums are made of thin, non-tempered glass, which breaks easily and into long, sharp shards. They're marginal for fish, and I sure wouldn't keep a venomous snake in one.
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