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Vernom innoculation
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by pygmybait on October 23, 2003
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I have been reading about people innoculating themselves against various types of snake venom. I can't seem to find information on exactly how they administer the venom and the quantities involved.
Are the innoculations administered subcutaniously?
I realize that the amounts involved are going to vary according to the species but hypothetically, what would be a good place to start with a crotalid?
Thanks for any information you can pass along. Thanks - Matt
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RE: Vernom innoculation
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by Naja_oxiana on October 23, 2003
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Hi Matt,
Yes, there are a few people who have innoculated themselves to different snake venoms. You're looking at a *lot* of scarring from most of your venoms. One person who I knw who does this looks f'd up from all the cobra venom that he's taken. Even the Naja nivea did a bit of physical damage.
Theoretically speaking, you could immunize yourself against a crotalid venom--and I must assume that you're talking more about the physically destructive properties of generic "crotalid" venom rather than the pre-synaptic neuro crotoxin. You would experienec a good bit of scarring and it would take quite a while with frequent injections to build the immunoglobulins. It would be *painful*.
I'm sure that someof the guys who actually do ths will be posting soon enough. But ths is just my take on it.
Cheers,
Roger
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RE: Venom innoculation
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by Chris_Harper on October 24, 2003
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This has been discussed many times in the Experts forum - thoroughly. You might have to look through a few pages to find it though.
~CH
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RE: Vernom innoculation
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by jared on October 26, 2003
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There are various people who have experimented with self innoculation, two that come to mind that you may want to check out are Dr.Tim Friede and Bill Haast. Both work mainly with elapid innoculation, I have heard viper venom to be more say (tempermental). I myself did a little attempt at mild venom conditioning while in undergrad, usually subcutaneously, with the Agkistrodon complex (using about 1/75 parts sterile dilute). WARNING! I do not condone self innoculation attempts nor am I suggesting, but you asked. They do hurt, they will swell, especially at first. I did approximately 30 injections, with zero scarring and only minor pain (keep in mind I was using A.c.contortrix and A.p.picsivorus complex ONLY). And yes, I did have an incident while working on a juvenile e cotton, which turned into a fairly moderate envenomation, and after 5 days in a hospital (in which they recommended I submerge my hand in an ice pack as soon as I arrived with a 35 page bite protocol which specifically said not to use ice;( I left with the only permenant nerve damage and scar steming from the awful fasciotomy on my hand. AGAIN, this is only my experience on the subject, and the venoms being worked with were very dilute and low toxicity (though cottons are known for extreme localized damage and prone to infection). Again, I suggest you check out some books, and as Chris suggested there are alot of posts on the experts forum. Good luck,
Jared Watts
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RE: Vernom innoculation
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by Naja_oxiana on October 28, 2003
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THe only other thing that i have to say on this subject, at the risk of redundancy, is that any issue of innoculation requires a thorough understanding of immunology.
You'd likely need to brush up on bio and your chems--organic chem, protein chem--before you considered a serious study of immunology or an attempt at self-immunization.
Roger
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