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mental health of captive animals
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by 91C2 on April 30, 2004
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In keeping animals in pens with little, or no excercise, do you think this is conducive to the animals health, mentally??
Does being couped up in a pen affect the mentality?
Should captive animals be alotted some sort of activity to stimulate their brains????
Fish, it is said, have a memory of about 3 seconds. What is the memory of snakes?????
Many people argue that snakes like to be couped up and they do not excercise themselves in the wild. I disagree. They get excerise by seeking out food sources. Being kept in a container, all day, everyday, provides no brain stimulation, no excercise.
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by Phobos on April 30, 2004
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Great subject! I think about this often but I have no clue what the memory span is though. I do think the enviroment provided does factor in the overall success in keeping animals. I could keep many more hot herps if I used the "Warehouse Method" I see many other keepers use to house their snakes. I buy good spacious cages and provide an environment as close to the natural one as possible. I feel it helps the snake lower it's level of stress.
The Bitis that I keep move around a bit depending on temperature they need but most of all their feeding status. When ready to feed they assume an ambush position but after they have eaten they retreat under the bushes in the cage. They do seem to establish a recognizable pattern.
As I said, it's an interesting topic and I would welcome input from others.
Best,
Al
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by elapidking81 on May 1, 2004
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i agree i have seen people keep snakes in tubs and other containers, i feel that snakes need some type of stimulation . like with all my snake i feed f/t mice and rats but i make them work for it if they will some snakes of course dont hunt like that but the ones that do i use this method like my red tail i will make her follow the rat until i give it to her . i think that helps give her some type of stimulation added a natural setting
shane kissinger
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by JRHarrison on May 1, 2004
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Interesting subject. Mental stress is hard to judge in reptiles because most tests are made for mammals. But studies we have done show that stress hormones do increase when animals are handled. Problem with this is getting a good control group because you need to handle to draw blood. So you would have to use many animals and lots of research time just to set up the control. Before starting the study on cage stress.
In the past if the animal feed, reproduced and did not rub its nose we thought it was doing well. This may not be the case. This is a project a grad student could do
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by Snakeman1982 on May 1, 2004
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Absolutely correct, this is a project that should be done at multiple levels. For captive animals with comparisons to wild animals.
The method that Jim is probably referring to is measuring the cortisone levels in the snake's blood, which should correlate with "stress". The big problem with doing this to wild snakes (and captive) is that there adrenalin almost immediately starts going through its body and producing cortisone at high levels when it feels threatened.
Because of this there hasn't been a lot of studies done. You would have to find, safely catch, and bleed the snake (probably from the main caudal artery) in a minute or less. Otherwise your data would be flawed by its cortisone levels rising while you were handling it.
The chemicals to test these experiments are also very expensive.
I agree with Jim. I am not sure if any grad students are currently considering this type of work for a thesis or dissertation but they should. It is certainly publishable.
Robert Jadin
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by 91C2 on May 1, 2004
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I can a valid point of checking chemical levels in the blood of both animals, but that only shows the chemical levels.
What I am referring to is the balance of excericse of the two and wether or not a wild snake actually just lazes about, as they are forced to do in captivity.
I, for one, have noticed my large retic doing nothing aside from postural movements in her home, which was a 4X8, 8ft tall doll house. It had w indow in the door a window on each side of the door and a window on each wall. It had a full floor, with a large, drainable bucket for soaking, and a split level upper floor.
When in her home, she did nothing. But, when outside for excercise everyday, she moved alot, looked up at the trees and sky, and wandered about the area. She checked things out then check something else. Cars would pass on the road and she would watch them.
This is why I ask such a question. In her home, nothing interested her but eating and the times I would sit in her home and visit with her. Then, she would put her head on my lap and in my face. If I brought out a drink, such as Coke or tea, she would drink it. Outside, she did not want my drink but one time, she was busy with her enviroment.
My boa does the same, nothing at home, but when outside, she wants to climb and crawl and be a snake. She has plenty of room in her pen and many places to climb and hide. Outside, she is a snake, inside, a motionless eating machine.
I believe, based on the observations, that mental health is established from contact with the outside world and the chance to stimulate themselfs in a natural manner.
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by 91C2 on May 1, 2004
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Ok, shoot me for allowing the snake to drink Coke and tea. I can see no ill effects they could pose, aside from the caffine, but then, I weigh 145 pounds and she weighed about 220 at the time. Hardly enough for six ounces to harm. I never worried about "brain freeze", as I do not drink with ice, just very cold.
The retic died because her heater in her doll house quit working and she spent the night outside at 19 degrees. The boa is 11 years old and very healthy
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by JRHarrison on May 1, 2004
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Sunlight plays a role in some observed behaviors. Like a normally calm gila biting when placed in sunlight.
We have to be careful not to impose our feelings and diets on reptiles.
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RE: mental health of captive animals
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by Bigred on May 5, 2004
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Nothing angers me more than going to a supposed "serious" keeper's house and seeing rooms full of plastic bins arranged in "cupboard" style, row upon row of animals will absolutely no stimulation, waiting to be made money out of.
I have 15 snakes, ranging from a 4m burm to various najas, and I strive to give them as much stimulation as possible inside their cages.
With the boids, its easy to "take them for a walk" outside in the sun; with the hots it's a different story.
As much as I would love to, I cannot dump my psychotic 1.8m naja annulifera on the front lawn, so I try to put things in his cage to stimulate him, as well as changing the cage setup from time to time.
Just my 2c
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