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Amateur question
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by Boris on September 1, 2004
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First of all I just want to say this is an awesome website.
I really have no experience with venemous snakes. I recently moved to California and am an avid outdoors person. I can't seem to find any reliable info on what to if I am bitten by a rattlesnake in the back country. I've heard there are snake bit kits but I've also heard that these kits are of no use. I've also haerd conflicting advice on the proper first aid protocol. Some people say you should cut the wound open and suck out the venom while others say this will only make the situation worse.
Anyways, it looks like there are many true experts here so any advice is much appreciated. Remember, I'm looking for advice on what to do in the absence nearby medical care.
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RE: Amateur question
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by paleoherp on September 1, 2004
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hi i m going to be quik on this , it will take to long to tell you all i know about snake bites. rattlesnakes have extremaly powerfull venom its digestive enzymes work very quik, so getting a bite in the middle of no where is something you should aviod , your right sucking the venom out does not help you or a paramedic because you may have erased the bite mark , ice never works well either on a bite don t apply a tourniquet because it increases the damage in tissue , don t have pain relievers , for loads of information about snakes bites go to.
www.google.com (its a search engine) and type in snake bite first aid .
hope this helps
SHAUN
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RE: Amateur question
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by rthom on September 1, 2004
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Check out the Snake getters web site ,don't have address.They have snake bite protocol's and links for all the information you'll need.
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RE: Amateur question
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by Phobos on September 1, 2004
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Try this site:
http://www-surgery.ucsd.edu/ent/DAVIDSON/Snake/index.htm
This is written by a MD that treats snakebites.
The best treatment is never get bit!
Al
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RE: Amateur question
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by GREGLONGHURST on September 2, 2004
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My website has a section on snakebite first aid.
Suction will probably not do much good, but it will do no harm, which is the first rule of first aid.
Erasing the fang marks ain't gonna happen. They may well be visible years later. ~~Greg~~
http://treasurecoastwebdesign.com/snakes
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RE: Amateur question
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by paleoherp on September 2, 2004
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remember your do s and do nots when you get a bite , you do not make any cuts either across or along the bite make because infection may be introduced some venoms cause non clotting blood and won t stop bleeding, don t inject potassium or rub any into your wounds , don t pack ice , never rub anything into the wound, don t heat the wound, don t take alchohol ,
and your right greg , erase was the wrong word i used, when you wash a bite you do it with care because washing it might disfigure or deface the original bite mark thats what i was saying , use anti septic
the reason i say don t pack ice is because it will cause reflex vasodolation and rapid obsorbtion of the venom,
1 final note some authorities recomend you don t wash the bite because they may need to obtain traces of venom residue.
go to the google website and type in snake bite first aid it gives you more then enough info
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RE: Amateur question
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by Phobos on September 2, 2004
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I can tell you that even a surgeon should never cut to treat a snakebite on a hand or foot, no less a novice cutting away. There are too many structures just under the skin. That's why there are special surgeons that only work on hands & feet.
I know from experience...A general surgeon butchered my finger treating me for a Timber bite on my index finger in 1973. On venom ER for those of you who watch, you NEVER see any of the patients with cut fang marks. Nor do you see Dr. Bush running around with a Scaple. He's first class in treating snakebites from what I have seen.
Al
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RE: Amateur question
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by timberrattlesnake89 on September 2, 2004
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Al,
Your are right about Dr. Bush. He is an expert on snakes bites. He treats them very well. He has written several protocals on www.emedicine.com just look under rattler envenomation. That give all the info you need.
Phillip
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RE: Amateur question
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by Joy on September 3, 2004
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Agreed! And his advice on a snake bite kit: a cell phone, or some other way (radio) to contact emergency help.
I’ve never experienced a venomous snake bite, so I am no expert, but EVERYTHING I have ever read or seen says the same thing. Stay calm! Do NOT cut the wound open. Do not use a tourniquet. And move calmly and smoothly to professional medical attention. And it is always best to know what species bit you or be able to describe the snake in detail.
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RE: Amateur question
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by Phobos on September 3, 2004
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Phillip... Thanks for the good link. This is a "summary" of a research paper by Dr. S. Bush regarding extraction.
Note: for the full paper see the journal: Wilderness Environ Med. 2000 Fall;11(3):149-51.
Effects of a negative pressure venom extraction device (Extractor) on local tissue injury after artificial rattlesnake envenomation in a porcine model.
Bush SP, Hegewald KG, Green SM, Cardwell MD, Hayes WK.
Loma Linda University School of Medicine, CA, USA.
OBJECTIVES: To determine if a commercially available negative-pressure venom extraction device (Extractor) reduces local tissue injury after artificial rattlesnake envenomation in a porcine model.
METHODS: We prospectively studied 10 pigs using a crossover design. After the pigs were anesthetized, 25 mg Crotalus atrox venom was injected obliquely with a 22-gauge needle 7 mm deep into subcutaneous tissues proximal to the ventral hind hoof. Pigs were randomized to receive either the Extractor (applied 3 minutes following envenomation and left in place for 30 minutes) or no Extractor. The protocol was repeated 14 days later by using the alternate treatment group and opposite hind leg for each animal. We measured leg circumference at standardized locations on the hoof, foreleg, and thigh at baseline and then 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 24, 48, 72, and 96 hours following venom injection. Maximal changes in circumference at 6 hours were compared using the paired t test. Minimum residual swelling at up to 96 hours was similarly compared.
RESULTS: Maximal 6-hour swelling was similar with and without the Extractor: the hoof difference with the Extractor was -0.1% (95% CI = -3.4% to 3.2%, P = .95), foreleg difference was 0.3% (95% CI = -4.1% to 4.7%, P = .88), and thigh difference was -2.8% (95% CI = -10.0% to 4.4%, P = .40). Minimum residual swelling at up to 96 hours was also similar with and without the Extractor: hoof difference with the Extractor was 1.2% (95% CI = -5.6% to 8.0%, P = .70), foreleg difference was 0.6% (95% CI = -3.7% to 4.9%, P = .76), and thigh difference was 0.3% (95% CI = -2.4% to 3.0%, P = .81). A circular lesion identical in size and shape to the Extractor suction cup, which later necrosed and resulted in tissue loss, developed where the device had been applied in 2 animals. No such lesions occurred in legs not treated with the Extractor.
CONCLUSION: No benefit was demonstrated from Extractor use for artificial rattlesnake envenomation in our animal study. The skin necrosis noted in 2 Extractor-treated extremities suggests that an injury pattern may be associated with the device.
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