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How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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Anonymous post on September 9, 2004
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I was just wondering how long it took most of us before we got out first "HOT". For myself, I kept non's for 2 years before I got my first hot, which was a N.copperhead. Two months later I got a pair of N.Pacific's. A month after that I got traded them for a pair of Ruber's. Now I want a Gabby and a b&w spitter! I know that I do not have the experience to keep them so I am not. How long should I wait before I get into what I want?
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by Snake17 on September 9, 2004
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I live in Romania where the easiest way to get a snake is to cacth it your self. I caught my first snakes, a grass snake and a dice snake(Natrix natrix & Natrix tessellata) in 2000. I let them go. In july 2001 I caught my first hot, a Vipera berus(Euro adder) and kept it. So, my first snake was a venomous one. Now I`m keeping Euro adders(Vipera berus), all 3 valid susbpecies of Vipera ammodytes and the rare Vipera ursinii moldavica along with a lot of non-ven. herps. All of which(except for the species exotic to Europe) I caught my self. And if I don`t get scamed, I`ll get my first elapid, an Egyptian Cobra(Naja haje) tomorow. I never got bit by any of my hots and realy consider my self a good and responasable handler. I think the point is not neceseraly keep non-vens a long time before you get involved with hots but get realy informed. I can sincerly say that I know more about snakes than a lot of U.S. keepers(this is something that I`ve deducted from the questions being asked by lots of the hot keepers). Maybe the reason for this is that I`m keeping snakes primarily for scientific purposes. I don`t want to seem flamboient. Best regards, Alex S.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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Anonymous post on September 10, 2004
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The "I-know-more-than-you"-attitude you show is actually quite typical for a teenager. The fact that you base this on the questions that are being asked in a "Ask the Experts" forum is pretty amusing. Many of us have been keeping snakes longer than you have been alive, so I would be careful about overconfidence and jumping to quick conclusions that are largely based on your Internet experience. Also, you say that you are keeping the snakes mostly for scientific purposes - what studies are you currently working on? What is your hypothesis? Who are your advisors? What have you published? Not to burst your bubble, but there are a lot of keepers who firmly believe they are keeping for scientific purposes, without having as much as a clue what such a study would actually entail.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by Snake17 on September 12, 2004
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Sorry about answering your reply so late. Didn`t see it. I didn`t say i know more than you or most of the u.s keepers. I am awaire that there are people that have been keeping snakes since before I was born. You probably know as well as I that there are a lot of incompetents that keep snakes and have no clue as to what they are keeping. You can`t contradict me. I collect info from my snakes(different body lenghts, scale counts, the different temperatures around the snake when I caught it and exactly where I caught it) that will help me when I`ll give my doctorates thesis. I want to make a review of the taxonomy of the Vipera ursinii complex in Europe. For example, both populations of meadow vipers in my country have been classefied as Vipera ursinii moldavica while I fermly belive that only one of them is and I`m going to prove it. You`ll see, just wait. I also keep my herps for educational purposes. I run a club, named "Moldavica" after our endemic meadow viper which educates a lot of people in schools here by teaching herpetology here every week. Once a year I organise a expo with as much as my native herps I can come up with, again for educational purposes. Let`s set one thing strait: I respect most people on this site, I know I know nothing compared to them and that I have have close to 0 experience in herps compared to them. I know I`m way better than a pretty large nomber of people though, both here and in the states. You don`t know me, have never spoken to me so please don`t judge me. I saw what questions are being asked here by people with larger experience that me. It sometimes seems completely ridiculos. And why is it that whatever some one that is not 40 says is because they`re adolescents? I realy don`t see what age has got to do with it. I could have studied more in 5 years than otheres in 15. Maybe I`m more interested in this.
P.S.: I am also very interested in reptile ethology(I don`t know for sure if this is a correct english term, it means animal behavior in romanian) and take lots and lots of notes. I have written papers, in romanian with which I won several national echology contests. I have the diplomas at home to proove it. I don`t have some one to guide me because, as I said, I haven`t met some one better than me here, not even a licensed herpetologist. You don`t know this country. If you`d live here you`d understand. Anything else I can clear you up on ? Best regards, Alex S.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by Snake17 on September 12, 2004
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I forgot to mention that my club publishes a paper twice a month, containing lots of bio-info and that most of the articles are written by me.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by AquaHerp on September 12, 2004
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Yes "ethology" is the term.
When I was just a youngster I had the great fortune of meeting and befriending the late Dr. Sherman Minton Jr. I learned at a very young age that I'm never as smart as I think I am when it comes to these things. Alex, I applaud your push for a deeper herpetological understanding, but at the same time be careful not to offend or isolate yourself from those around you who can aid in this quest. Personally, I'll converse with anyone, but once that attitude starts to show itself, then I have better things to do with my time. On the same note one never knows where new and exciting findings and information might come from. But it's no use in announcing it when nobody's listening anymore.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by Snake17 on September 13, 2004
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I realy didn`t meen to offend any one, realy. As I said in my previous post I am awaire that there are loads of people much more informed and maybe much more skilled as me. I would realy like to be treated as an adult, I am very professional abou my work, take great precautions(more for the well being of the snakes than of mine), photograph and record whatevere I find somewhere in an expedition; I record what plant species and other animals co-exist with the herpetological fauna. I agree with you that info can come from where you least expect it. My apollogeese to any one who I may have offended. I know my place but knowing your place doesn`t neceserily meen being humbel or lying to yourself and to tohers about what you know, it`s evaluating yourself, right ?
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by AquaHerp on September 13, 2004
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You didn't offend me at all. It's refreshing to see someone your age that's a serious as you are. You sound as though you have gained quite a bit of knowledge in your years, and for that you should indeed be very proud. The old addage that "Knowledge is Power" is not correct. That is not how the original term was used. It's "The APPLICATION of Knowledge is Power". And that wields more validity and influence when it's used in the proper context. If used wisely, your knowledge and experience can be used to open doors and best of all- set you on a course to gain even more knowledge and understanding.
What I would do, and speaking only for myself here... don't even mention your age in the topic. Not that it's a bad thing by any means, that's not anywhere near what I meant. But go ahead and speak up, answer, join in, and let others be surprised by your age later on. But if you start a conversation with "I'm only 17 so I know that none of you are going to listen to me...." then it just sets the tone for the rest of the conversation and the original topic goes to the sidelines. Just jump in to the conversation, don't be offended when people argue with you, that's what happens. Regardless of being right or wrong, everyone has an opinion and there are those that think they are and expert on everything and have to add something in or argue every little point to death, it's just the nature of these type of forums, as well as the business itself. From the little I have seen of this forum though, it's pretty clean of the regular BS that I've seen with most of the other forums. I sure hope it stays that way. I'd hate to slither on so soon.
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RE: How long before everyone started to keep hots?
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by Snake17 on September 13, 2004
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Thanks Doug.(I hope you don`t mind me calling you by your first name). I agree with everything you said in your post and I`ll take your advice into consideration. Thanks again. Best regards, Alex S.
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